Conan
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There are only three R2 schools in power conferences: WF, BYU and TCU.
Conference Expansion: Stanford, California and SMU Join the ACC
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Small sample size, but the 4 larger state schools I've attended or worked at over the last 23 years TA's teach labs but not the main lecture. In sciences anyway.
Being a part of AAU is about more than professor teaching hours. The big issues for Wake, as I understand it, are number and $ amount of research funding brought into the university, and number of PhD's granted. Doing a lot of teaching detracts from the time available to chase grant money or supervise PhD students, but, Wake also lacks the institutional infrastructure to have tons of PhD students and large over head hard to administer grants.
Louis Gossett Jr
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Just make a stronger tie between Wake the undergrad and Wake Health Sciences, put in some wording about new emphasis, and you have an R1 university. The money, people, and facilities are already there.
PhDeac
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Basically, yeah. That's a function of their percent effort devoted to teaching and research. R1 schools have more faculty with closer to a 50% research effort who are expected to publish and get grants.
I should add it's a function of size as well. Grad students aren't necessarily worse instructors. My department emphasizes training grad students to teach (which my grad program did not) and we have several grad students who get higher student evaluation scores than faculty. Everyone has a lot going on outside the classroom, but plenty of faculty are balancing classes with multiple research projects and committees and other service as well. I imagine at Wake, most faculty are more focused on their teaching. And plenty of departments just don't have grad programs to get grad students from.
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Maybe but that would seem to mean a big shift in the mission which as an alum I'd find a bit disappointing. For example, Wake and UNC are close in the rankings but the quality of the experience at Wake is different because of small class size, access to profs, etc. Wake is not UNC or Purdue or Cal and shouldn't become like them.
Anecdote but, I applied for a job at Wake about 15 years ago and the teaching research expectations were 60/40 teaching/research. Now ay my current institution we shop most positions at 40/60 teaching/research, but maybe 30% are 60/40.
BarcaDeac
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It seems like the media is just relying on FSU to "figure it out" or the ACC to give in
Obviously Wake doesn't have the history or endowment, but Wake seems to have an approach very similar to Princeton. Princeton maintains an undergraduate focus while meeting the research expectations.
BeachBumDeac
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FSU gonna get a big loan from JP Morgan Chase to pay the exit fee and then they'll have to be paying down the debt for decades. Can't wait for the private equity era of college football.
Yeah, that's our model.
deacdixieboy
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I’m at a SLAC and even I am at 45/45/10 (with service being the last one for those not familiar). In reality, it’s more like 60/30/10 with research at 60.
CaptRenault
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How the PAC 12 imploded gradually, then suddenly:
www.wsj.com
...Kliavkoff now presides over the rubble of a once iconic conference. In the last year, eight Pac-12 members have defected to other leagues—including five who rushed to the exits last Friday, when the conference’s future melted down just hours after Kliavkoff thought he had clinched a streaming deal with Apple that would stabilize the Pac-12.
Now the conference has just four remaining members—Stanford, California, Oregon State and Washington State. At the moment, no push is underway to save it, according to people familiar with the matter. Kliavkoff will likely be out of a job if the Pac-12 disbands after June 30, 2024, when its broadcast deal expires.
The Pac-12 was already loaded with problems when Kliavkoff took over from former commissioner Larry Scott in 2021. Many of them were related to the Pac-12 Network, the brainchild of Scott and source of plentiful headaches since its launch in 2012. Lacking lucrative options with networks, the Pac-12 opted to retain full ownership—unlike other conference TV channels that partnered with established networks with national distribution—keeping everything in-house from a gleaming new production studio in downtown San Francisco.
The Pac-12 Network never took off, in part because of its inability to reach an agreement with DirecTV that limited distribution. Poor distribution meant lagging revenue from television rights, putting the Pac-12 in last place among the five major conferences. Tax records show that in the 2021-22 fiscal year, Pac-12 schools received an average disbursement of $37 million; the Big Ten schools received $58 million.
When the Pac-12 leaders sought a replacement for Scott, they thought that their savior might lie in the changing nature of television distribution, said Len Perna—chief executive of executive search firm TurnkeyZRG, which helped hire Kliavkoff—in an interview in May.
The Pac-12 members told themselves, “We think it’s going to streaming, we need a streaming executive,” Perna said.
Kliavkoff fit the bill. He had little experience in college sports, but had worked at MLB Advanced Media and NBC Universal, where he helped launch Hulu and at one time served as its interim chief executive. He oversaw cable networks for Hearst Corporation. More recently, he had worked for a virtual reality startup, served on the WNBA’s Board of Governors and led the entertainment and sports division at MGM Resorts International.
“My background was the unique combination of media and large-scale live entertainment and sports betting and some legislative stuff that collectively I think gave me a unique kind of résumé that I think spoke to the Pac-12 board of directors,” Kliavkoff said in an interview in June.
Then, three weeks after officially taking over on July 1, 2021, the college sports landscape began to change when Texas and Oklahoma announced they would leave the Big 12 for the SEC. According to people familiar with the matter, former Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby approached Kliavkoff about combining his eight remaining schools with the Pac-12 to form a 20-team super conference.
Kliavkoff was on board, according to a person familiar with his thinking, but the merger failed to clear a subcommittee where Southern California president Carol Folt opposed it, according to people familiar with the matter.
In a statement on Monday, Folt characterized decisions around expansion as confidential and collaborative. “It is laughable to suggest that, in a group of independent and strong-minded leaders, any one president or chancellor had undue sway over anyone else.”
A year later, Kliavkoff and the rest of the Pac-12 were blindsided when USC and UCLA announced a shocking departure for the Big Ten. It was the one scenario that was impossible to defend against, or so an expansion study commissioned by the Pac-12 in the summer of 2021 concluded, according to a person familiar with the matter.
That left Kliavkoff with a clear mandate to keep the conference’s 10 remaining schools together by signing an attractive television deal. He attempted to enter an exclusive negotiating window to extend its existing deals with ESPN and Fox in July 2022. Some Pac-12 board members wanted as much as $50 million per school per year, according to people familiar with the matter, but Kliavkoff told them that about $43 million was a more realistic target. Even so, this was so far above what television partners were willing to pay that a deal never materialized.
Meanwhile, new Big 12 commissioner Brett Yormark had approached ESPN and Fox about an early renewal at a much lower asking price that the networks found more palatable, said people familiar with the matter. Thus, the Big 12’s new six-year $2.28 billion deal announced in October leapfrogged the conference past the Pac-12.
The Pac-12 had no choice but to take its broadcast rights to the open market—where the TV industry was increasingly under economic pressure. After months of hoping that the financial climate would improve, the Pac-12 presidents and chancellors on June 30 unanimously voted to give the commissioner a July 31 deadline for the media deal, said a person familiar with the conference.
Kliavkoff eventually delivered two options. One was a traditional five-year deal involving traditional networks, with three cable partners and one digital bidder splitting the Pac-12 rights. It would have eventually given schools a disbursement of about $30 million a year—far less than the Big Ten and SEC, but in line with the new Big 12 deal.
The second option–a streaming deal with Apple—had more risk and more upside. Schools would start out making less—Arizona president Robert Robbins this week put the figure at $23 million—but could make more depending on how many subscriptions they generated. It would be costly for the conference in other ways: Apple declined to cover production costs associated with football and basketball games, which television executives said can run between $600,000 and $900,000 per game.
But just days before the July 31 deadline, the ground shifted under Kliavkoff’s feet when Colorado announced it was leaving the Pac-12 for the Big 12. The defection caused the more traditional television deal to fall through, said one person familiar with the matter, but Kliavkoff was able to keep Apple interested by suggesting the Pac-12 could add a 10th member...
...What Kliavkoff and other Pac-12 presidents didn’t know was that the Big Ten had reengaged in conversations with Oregon and Washington that had been put on ice under former commissioner Kevin Warren. In a closed session late Thursday night, Washington’s Board of Regents decided that what the Big Ten had to offer—a partial share of revenue up to $35 million, and the promise of a full share in the future—was better than anything the Pac-12 could deliver...
He Inherited ‘Multiple Dumpster Fires’ at the Pac-12. Then It Went Up in Smoke.
George Kliavkoff’s experience in streaming media was supposed to lead the Pac-12 into the future. Instead he is overseeing the likely demise of a storied college conference.
www.wsj.com
...Kliavkoff now presides over the rubble of a once iconic conference. In the last year, eight Pac-12 members have defected to other leagues—including five who rushed to the exits last Friday, when the conference’s future melted down just hours after Kliavkoff thought he had clinched a streaming deal with Apple that would stabilize the Pac-12.
Now the conference has just four remaining members—Stanford, California, Oregon State and Washington State. At the moment, no push is underway to save it, according to people familiar with the matter. Kliavkoff will likely be out of a job if the Pac-12 disbands after June 30, 2024, when its broadcast deal expires.
The Pac-12 was already loaded with problems when Kliavkoff took over from former commissioner Larry Scott in 2021. Many of them were related to the Pac-12 Network, the brainchild of Scott and source of plentiful headaches since its launch in 2012. Lacking lucrative options with networks, the Pac-12 opted to retain full ownership—unlike other conference TV channels that partnered with established networks with national distribution—keeping everything in-house from a gleaming new production studio in downtown San Francisco.
The Pac-12 Network never took off, in part because of its inability to reach an agreement with DirecTV that limited distribution. Poor distribution meant lagging revenue from television rights, putting the Pac-12 in last place among the five major conferences. Tax records show that in the 2021-22 fiscal year, Pac-12 schools received an average disbursement of $37 million; the Big Ten schools received $58 million.
When the Pac-12 leaders sought a replacement for Scott, they thought that their savior might lie in the changing nature of television distribution, said Len Perna—chief executive of executive search firm TurnkeyZRG, which helped hire Kliavkoff—in an interview in May.
The Pac-12 members told themselves, “We think it’s going to streaming, we need a streaming executive,” Perna said.
Kliavkoff fit the bill. He had little experience in college sports, but had worked at MLB Advanced Media and NBC Universal, where he helped launch Hulu and at one time served as its interim chief executive. He oversaw cable networks for Hearst Corporation. More recently, he had worked for a virtual reality startup, served on the WNBA’s Board of Governors and led the entertainment and sports division at MGM Resorts International.
“My background was the unique combination of media and large-scale live entertainment and sports betting and some legislative stuff that collectively I think gave me a unique kind of résumé that I think spoke to the Pac-12 board of directors,” Kliavkoff said in an interview in June.
Then, three weeks after officially taking over on July 1, 2021, the college sports landscape began to change when Texas and Oklahoma announced they would leave the Big 12 for the SEC. According to people familiar with the matter, former Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby approached Kliavkoff about combining his eight remaining schools with the Pac-12 to form a 20-team super conference.
Kliavkoff was on board, according to a person familiar with his thinking, but the merger failed to clear a subcommittee where Southern California president Carol Folt opposed it, according to people familiar with the matter.
In a statement on Monday, Folt characterized decisions around expansion as confidential and collaborative. “It is laughable to suggest that, in a group of independent and strong-minded leaders, any one president or chancellor had undue sway over anyone else.”
A year later, Kliavkoff and the rest of the Pac-12 were blindsided when USC and UCLA announced a shocking departure for the Big Ten. It was the one scenario that was impossible to defend against, or so an expansion study commissioned by the Pac-12 in the summer of 2021 concluded, according to a person familiar with the matter.
That left Kliavkoff with a clear mandate to keep the conference’s 10 remaining schools together by signing an attractive television deal. He attempted to enter an exclusive negotiating window to extend its existing deals with ESPN and Fox in July 2022. Some Pac-12 board members wanted as much as $50 million per school per year, according to people familiar with the matter, but Kliavkoff told them that about $43 million was a more realistic target. Even so, this was so far above what television partners were willing to pay that a deal never materialized.
Meanwhile, new Big 12 commissioner Brett Yormark had approached ESPN and Fox about an early renewal at a much lower asking price that the networks found more palatable, said people familiar with the matter. Thus, the Big 12’s new six-year $2.28 billion deal announced in October leapfrogged the conference past the Pac-12.
The Pac-12 had no choice but to take its broadcast rights to the open market—where the TV industry was increasingly under economic pressure. After months of hoping that the financial climate would improve, the Pac-12 presidents and chancellors on June 30 unanimously voted to give the commissioner a July 31 deadline for the media deal, said a person familiar with the conference.
Kliavkoff eventually delivered two options. One was a traditional five-year deal involving traditional networks, with three cable partners and one digital bidder splitting the Pac-12 rights. It would have eventually given schools a disbursement of about $30 million a year—far less than the Big Ten and SEC, but in line with the new Big 12 deal.
The second option–a streaming deal with Apple—had more risk and more upside. Schools would start out making less—Arizona president Robert Robbins this week put the figure at $23 million—but could make more depending on how many subscriptions they generated. It would be costly for the conference in other ways: Apple declined to cover production costs associated with football and basketball games, which television executives said can run between $600,000 and $900,000 per game.
But just days before the July 31 deadline, the ground shifted under Kliavkoff’s feet when Colorado announced it was leaving the Pac-12 for the Big 12. The defection caused the more traditional television deal to fall through, said one person familiar with the matter, but Kliavkoff was able to keep Apple interested by suggesting the Pac-12 could add a 10th member...
...What Kliavkoff and other Pac-12 presidents didn’t know was that the Big Ten had reengaged in conversations with Oregon and Washington that had been put on ice under former commissioner Kevin Warren. In a closed session late Thursday night, Washington’s Board of Regents decided that what the Big Ten had to offer—a partial share of revenue up to $35 million, and the promise of a full share in the future—was better than anything the Pac-12 could deliver...
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This is a sad reality.
morrison2951
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Again, it must be asked.... where is f$u taking their talents to play if the sec has said that 16 is enough for now and have not "invited them in" and the big18 looks to be full as well??
thatguy2016
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myDeaconmyhand
First man to get a team of horses up Bear Mountain
Isn’t the “exit fee” all of the departing schools broadcast and rights revenue for multiple years?
thatguy2016
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yes, unless you negotiate a pre-paid buyout, so to speak
DeacOnCapeCod
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Hot take: crypto currency for each school. Who wants to get in the ground floor of Deac-coin?
Wakeforest22890
Snowpom
My understanding is that with a grant of rights that the ACC holds, if a team is to leave early without successfully negotiating an agreed-upon exit, the ACC still receives that school's media/broadcast rights until the end of the grant of rights. Of course there would always be legal manuevering associated with this but I guess at the simplest level that's what the GOR provides.
ABCDeac
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Get FSU to pay $280 million and let them out and waive GOR. Pay each remaining ACC school $10 million/year next two years on top of current distributions (presumably less for ND). Add Stanford and Cal but they come in for reduced share.
Stanford just too good of a school with too many resources to ignore. Helps keep a ND rival. Not sure FSU has anywhere good to land and if they do it will be for a reduced share of Big 10 like Oregon. Will take them at least 10 years to get back the exit fee. They flounder and it gives UNC/UVA/Clemson pause (which should happen slightly anyway with increased distributions in short term).
UNC is key. They don’t want to leave. They have long been the big draw of the ACC and have lots of power already. I cannot imagine they can stomach being a second-tier draw with minimal power in a football-first conference.
ACC needs money and time. Striking a good deal with FSU helps both. If UNC/UVA/Clemson decide to get out, ACC is over.