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WF MBB Game 7: Florida Gators - Wednesday 7:15 ESPNU

deacvision7 said:
So why has his waiver not been cleared yet? The broadcast last night just mentioned it would be his 3rd college. Is that technically a no-no to the NCAA?
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It depends. Generally speaking, yes, but some are approved and some aren't. Like many things with the NCAA who the hell knows when or why?
 
deacvision7 said:
So why has his waiver not been cleared yet? The broadcast last night just mentioned it would be his 3rd college. Is that technically a no-no to the NCAA?
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Yes, if you transfer twice then you need a waiver (in simplest terms).
 
The frustrating part about the end of the first half is that in a game last year I distinctly remember Cam and Ty with some eye contact and pushing pace precisely to get a 2 for 1 opportunity. Why he is now forcing a shot to cede last shot is beyond me.

I will say, if you get an open layup, not a force, with 8-10 seconds left, I'll take that vs. waiting for a heave at the buzzer - i.e. you should generally take a great shot if you have one
 
Eh, just rewatched it. Cam beat his guy and was ahead of everyone else on the court. He's usually pretty solid finishing those reverse layups plus Keller was trailing. Not sure if he lost it going up or just had a weird angle. Probably a little spooked by the athleticism of Florida since he should have just tried to dunk it, probably would have gotten fouled. That's a foul or bucket maybe 80% of the time, definitely don't want any of our guards pulling up on fast breaks just because we could hold for one shot. Not to mention Florida didn't score on their possession anyway - we almost got another possession out of it also but Keller has stone hands.
 
thatguy2016 said:
I will say, if you get an open layup, not a force, with 8-10 seconds left, I'll take that vs. waiting for a heave at the buzzer - i.e. you should generally take a great shot if you have one
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It depends on the clock situation and how the other team is doing offensively. If you are giving up greater than 1 point per possession on defense and scoring greater than 1 point per possession on the offense, the math would say that holding for the last shot is going to be better. Say that both teams are scoring 1.10 points per possession. Taking a guaranteed layup and giving the other team the ball back for the last possession would = 2 - 1.10 = +0.9 expected points, whereas holding for the last shot yourself would = +1.10 expected points. Although maybe points per possession are significantly lower if you only give a team 10 seconds left on the clock for the possession, I don't really know the answer to that but if so it would bring the two choices closer to equal as far as expected points.

I say this because Wake (in the last few years) is significantly better on offense than defense, so high points per possession for both teams is a pretty common occurrence.
 
deacon14 said:
It depends on the clock situation and how the other team is doing offensively. If you are giving up greater than 1 point per possession on defense and scoring greater than 1 point per possession on the offense, the math would say that holding for the last shot is going to be better. Say that both teams are scoring 1.10 points per possession. Taking a guaranteed layup and giving the other team the ball back for the last possession would = 2 - 1.10 = +0.9 expected points, whereas holding for the last shot yourself would = +1.10 expected points. Although maybe points per possession are significantly lower if you only give a team 10 seconds left on the clock for the possession, I don't really know the answer to that but if so it would bring the two choices closer to equal as far as expected points.

I say this because Wake (in the last few years) is significantly better on offense than defense, so high points per possession for both teams is a pretty common occurrence.
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my point is that when you hold for last shot, sometimes the shot is not a good one, certainly of less value than the average possession
 
thatguy2016 said:
my point is that when you hold for last shot, sometimes the shot is not a good one, certainly of less value than the average possession
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I think there is a difference between holding for a literal buzzer beater, and just waiting to start your offense with 6-10 seconds left. Some players/teams take holding for the last shot too literally, there is no real need to make it an actual buzzer beater.

If you just have your PG hold the ball until 3 seconds left and then heave a three, yeah your shot quality will be worse. But if you run normal offense that you just wait to initiate until <10 seconds left, your shot quality shouldn't be any worse than normal.
 
deacon14 said:
I think there is a difference between holding for a literal buzzer beater, and just waiting to start your offense with 6-10 seconds left. Some players/teams take holding for the last shot too literally, there is no real need to make it an actual buzzer beater.

If you just have your PG hold the ball until 3 seconds left and then heave a three, yeah your shot quality will be worse. But if you run normal offense that you just wait to initiate until <10 seconds left, your shot quality shouldn't be any worse than normal.
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IIRC Cam got the ball and had an open lane to the basket with ~8 seconds left. If he waited for the rest of the offense to come down and get set to run a play there would've been only like 3-4 seconds left. I don't mind him taking that shot.
 
deacon14 said:
I think there is a difference between holding for a literal buzzer beater, and just waiting to start your offense with 6-10 seconds left. Some players/teams take holding for the last shot too literally, there is no real need to make it an actual buzzer beater.

If you just have your PG hold the ball until 3 seconds left and then heave a three, yeah your shot quality will be worse. But if you run normal offense that you just wait to initiate until <10 seconds left, your shot quality shouldn't be any worse than normal.
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The normal WF offensive possession is around 16-17 seconds. If WF waits and initiates with 8-10 seconds left (which is actually what Cam did) the offense will almost be definition be less efficient than a normal offensive possession.
 
BeachBumDeac said:
IIRC Cam got the ball and had an open lane to the basket with ~8 seconds left. If he waited for the rest of the offense to come down and get set to run a play there would've been only like 3-4 seconds left. I don't mind him taking that shot.
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thatguy2016 said:
The normal WF offensive possession is around 16-17 seconds. If WF waits and initiates with 8-10 seconds left (which is actually what Cam did) the offense will almost be definition be less efficient than a normal offensive possession.
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Cam shot the ball with 16 seconds left on the clock for what it's worth, I just went back and looked. Sallis got a rebound with 20 seconds on the clock and immediately made an outlet pass up to Cam who sprinted into a contested layup that he missed.

I don't think anyone here is defending that anyways, but it's inexcusably bad clock management.
 
deacon14 said:
Cam shot the ball with 16 seconds left on the clock for what it's worth, I just went back and looked. Sallis got a rebound with 20 seconds on the clock and immediately made an outlet pass up to Cam who sprinted into a contested layup that he missed.

I don't think anyone here is defending that anyways, but it's inexcusably bad clock management.
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Yep. There was a ton of time left.
 
DeacsATS said:
Forbes clearly shortened the bench last night w/ MMM only getting 2 minutes.

Bench production has been pretty miserable this year. That'll get better when Monsanto comes back (and certainly if Reid is granted a waiver), but Hildreth, Sallis, and Carr are playing close to 40mpg. No big deal for now when we don't play for a week and then have 3 cupcakes after Rutgers, but developing some depth is going to be important when we get to the ACC schedule.
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Marion came on for the only 1:55 Carr was off the court. Florida outscored us by 6 during that stretch. I think that has more to do with Carr than Marion, but either way.

Bigger picture, we are now 349th of 362 teams in bench minutes. I know what our team is (4 guys and a bunch of bandaids at present) but those are really drastic numbers. One more playable guy could change a lot.
 
If this was a one time mistake then I wouldn't be as frustrated. It made sense what Cam tried to do last night, but it's an ongoing trend of us wasting possessions and creating possessions for the other team that are just pointless. When you play a lot of close games those possessions become immensely important.
 
Unfortunately it's pretty far enough into the season now that I'd assume the NCAA has seen everything we have on Efton. If he hasn't gotten the waiver now, there's no smoking gun left that's gonna change it. Which really sucks.
 
deacfan123 said:
Unfortunately it's pretty far enough into the season now that I'd assume the NCAA has seen everything we have on Efton. If he hasn't gotten the waiver now, there's no smoking gun left that's gonna change it. Which really sucks.
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they are still releasing decisions this week, both approvals and denials, so I don't think this is accurate.
 
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