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Lengthy [Redacted] Interview with Gold Rush

awakegirl said:
I tutored bball players at Wake under Skip. I was never treated with anything but respect and was completely backed up in every way by the coaches. Also, I lived with womens ball players, spent a ton of time with the mens ball team as a result and never ever thought a single one of the guys was anything but your nice, normal college age guy. In fact, the football players got in ten times the trouble of basketball when I was in college.

ETA- I know I'm late to the discussion, but this is what I find so baffling about the culture argument. Our basketball players under Skip and Dino were never these horrible guys that the admin seemingly wants to make them out to be. Even their recruiting trips were boring compared to the football team. CP spent his recruiting trip in our apartment watching finding memo bc jamaal and tar on were studying for exams and needed somewhere to drop him off. This was not a wild and crazy bunch.
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This.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
Do you have the same attitude when you go to the doctor?
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I have researched the illnesses that the doctor has told my grandfather if that is what you are asking.

You do realize you have the right to question a doctor, correct?
 
PhDeac said:
You're not late. You were one of the posters on top of this when these boards started. The public and private stuff coming out of football is much more indicative of a culture problem than basketball.
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In fairness, it is harder to control 85 kids than 13.

The football players I lived with sophomore year (2000-01) liked to party, but they were good dudes.
 
deacvision7 said:
In fairness, it is harder to control 85 kids than 13.

The football players I lived with sophomore year (2000-01) liked to party, but they were good dudes.
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This. Also, you might have to compromise a little more on character to get 85 guys to Wake to play football. In basketball you are taking 2-5 players a year, you can have extremely high standards. Hell, there's been people here (idiots) insinuating they would be fine with significantly lowering our academic and character expectations in order to facilitate success in the revenue sports.
 
Culture is culture. Seems like an even standard would be applied across the board.

Green, are you calling yourself an idiot?

awakegirl's post suggest this was purely about Dino or about a few guys on his teams.
 
PhDeac said:
Culture is culture. Seems like an even standard would be applied across the board.

Green, are you calling yourself an idiot?

awakegirl's post suggest this was purely about Dino or about a few guys on his teams.
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No. I was saying there are going to be different levels of character "potential" in football and basketball. It's much easier to make a mistake or lose control of a guy after he's here when hes one of 85 guys on a team. Obviously, I'd prefer that all of our athletes were of exemplary character, but it is much easier to make mistakes when you are evaluating hundreds of prospects a year and making probably 40-50 scholarship offers in football versus making 2-10 scholarship offers in basketball.

My overall point is it is ridiculous to be criticizing either basketball or football for culture now or in the past when I think for the most part our student athletes have been great.
 
Also, PH, where did I say that we should significantly lower our standards for football? I said some small compromises might have to be made in order to get guys in here.

There were some people advocating for us to become UK/UCONN in order to compete.
 
I also tutored players while skip was the coach. I don't think Wellman had any problems with the culture under Skip, it seems like things really loosened up under Dino's regime. Awakegirl - your experience sounds similar to mine where we knew what things were like under Skip and assumed they didn't change much with Dino. It seems like Dino's program may have been different from Wellmans perspective.
 
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I, like many others, am somewhat skeptical when people start throwing nebulous terms like "culture" around, but I think its odd how this argument has turned into a "when bz says culture change then he means he doesn't want the cp's, jt's, afa's, and jj's of the world." I'm not sure why we can't get good kids who are also highly athletic and skilled at basketball. By all accounts, the guys I just named are good dudes (and I can personally speak for CP being a good dude having lived in the same dorm with him for two years). I still haven't seen a statement where Bz said he doesn't want high quality recruits (*'s), nor have I seen him say that he wouldn't want any of the stars I mentioned.

I have not had any inside look into the program since I graduated (the players/staff I knew had either graduated or left early by the time I left), but when I was there the guys I knew were well behaved and did the right thing for the most part. I graduated before Skip passed away so I don't know if the culture got bad under Dino or if it never really did get bad and Bz and Wellman are just throwing things out there to cover for other issues which the AD would rather not air.
 
GreenDeac said:
Also, PH, where did I say that we should significantly lower our standards for football? I said some small compromises might have to be made in order to get guys in here.

There were some people advocating for us to become UK/UCONN in order to compete.
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I only remember people saying what you said, not people saying we should be UK/UConn. I definitely agree with your overall point.

Dented, if Wellman hadn't specifically made statements about 2-year players and the whole "not 5-star players, but 5-star hearts" thing, I'd agree with you.
 
I heard of one major instance of questionable player actions concerning Dino's squad that lost to Cleveland State. This incident took place in Miami during the tourney. Not good stuff and it is why I can see what Bz is alluding to.

Also, people I trust close to basketball did not like Dino, never did, even when Skip was around. So not surprised that Dino is now gone and we have moved on.

I also found the team tremendously frustrating with the on/off effort and showing up for games.
 
PhDeac said:
I only remember people saying what you said, not people saying we should be UK/UConn. I definitely agree with your overall point.

Dented, if Wellman hadn't specifically made statements about 2-year players and the whole "not 5-star players, but 5-star hearts" thing, I'd agree with you.
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Fair enough. I missed the two year player comment and must have misinterpreted the latter comment to mean, we want players with both 5 star skills and 5 star hearts.
 
Just for the record, the football guys when I was at Wake were mostly great guys too. There are more of them, so there was room for more trouble. Overall though, they were definitely bigger "partiers" and got into a lot more fights, precarious situations than the basketball guys did. I don't think they need a "culture" change either, just confusing why Wellman was willing to cover things up for them and make it sound like they are angels all the time while throwing the bball team under the bus.

As far as a change under Dino, that is possible. I liked Dino when I was at Wake and I liked his daughter a lot. I never heard all these horrible things that apparently a lot of people did. I wasn't there when he was HC though, so maybe things drastically changed. I did know most of the guys on his teams though. I don't know them as well as I knew Skip's guys, but I came to visit enough that I knew them a fair amount and still didn't have a negative impression. I think I have stated this before, but one of my best friends was very close friends with JJ and not only did I always like him, but he was a good guy to her. On top of that, one of my childhood friends from home is an NBA trainer and has most of the top draft picks at his pre-draft camp in Vegas. He specifically called me numerous times before the draft (knowing I went to Wake and am a huge fan) to tell me I should be proud of what a great guy JJ was, what a hard worker and good representative of the university. I have heard this guy trash other players before, so I take him at his word.

I know more went on than what I know apparently, but I do know most of the guys whose teams keep getting the "bad attitude" label and I just never saw that.
 
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Ron and Dino didn't get along for whatever reason so the thinly veiled trashing of Dino and his program is permitted by Ron. Simple as that.
 
It does seem to me that a couple bad apples (not even exactly sure who - doesn't matter at this point) really soured Wellman on the Dino regime.
 
deacvision7 said:
Ron and Dino didn't get along for whatever reason so the thinly veiled trashing of Dino and his program is permitted by Ron. Simple as that.
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I think this is the issue. Ron's ego sometimes is way too large for his own good.
 
PhDeac said:
Where did that "no floor" rule come from?
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We won 8 games last year and the idea of firing [Redacted] was never even remotely entertained.

What do you mean "where did that no floor rule come from?"

Wellman wants to start over, build a program, build a culture. There's no floor from a wins/losses perspective. If we went 0-32 but Wellman thought it was good for the program as a whole [Redacted] would not be fired.
 
I see a lot of hindsight suggestions of what many of us were saying with foresight. Dino should have been a interim coach and then we should have moved on. Things were in a bad enough spot under Skip that he could have sold it.

DC, I thought you were saying the "no floor" thing was a general belief that was held around college basketball, not just a Wellman thing. I think Wellman's lack of floor is a major problem.
 
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