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Wake / Jackets Game Thread

jaybone said:
I have to admit, I laughed til I cried watching that Nikita tape.
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Yeah, I feel bad about my previous post. I don't like to make fun of players, etc., but sometimes you just have to laugh.
 
RacerDeac said:
I guess I'm not sure how a game against GT, a team we're not undermanned against, changes that. If we're undermanned and still pick off a couple wins against the middle/top ACC teams, sure, I'd have some hope in the coach. If we just take care of business against teams like GT that have the same talent or less than us and still lose all of the games against "better teams", I don't see the signs of decent coaching. I see that as signs that we're doing what's expected. Given Bzz's limitations coming in, I get the feeling he would need to go above and beyond just doing what is expected for many Bzzouters to move to Bzzwait. It's as if the bar has been lowered so much, just doing what we should is now considered great.

I'm sure beating teams like GT and other shit teams might sway a few Bzzouters back to Waiters, but I don't think it would sway "most" as the TBR indicated. I could see maybe grabbing back some of the Outers that have moved from Wait over the course of this season.
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I really don't know what to say. I said that IF we were beating the bad teams more people would be Buzz-wait. The better teams don't have awful coaches who regularly lose to teams that they have more talent than. If the did, they wouldn't be considered to be better.

You'd might as well just accept that Bzz is going to be here next year and that the team is probably going to be marginally better with more promise, which means he will be here the following year as well. You're going to spend a lot more hours bitching between now and the end of the Bzz regime than you did between it's beginning and the present.

But anyway, my point was that if the team had been taking care of business against crap teams like Wofford and whoever else we lost to, while avoiding blowouts to the decent teams, people wouldn't be so distraught at the likelihood of Bzz being around for the forseeable future.

If there is no light at the end of the tunnel by the end of the OOC schedule next year, There will be no such thing as Bzz-in and Bzz-wait.
 
RacerDeac said:
I guess I'm not sure how a game against GT, a team we're not undermanned against, changes that. If we're undermanned and still pick off a couple wins against the middle/top ACC teams, sure, I'd have some hope in the coach. If we just take care of business against teams like GT that have the same talent or less than us and still lose all of the games against "better teams", I don't see the signs of decent coaching. I see that as signs that we're doing what's expected. Given Bzz's limitations coming in, I get the feeling he would need to go above and beyond just doing what is expected for many Bzzouters to move to Bzzwait. It's as if the bar has been lowered so much, just doing what we should is now considered great.

I'm sure beating teams like GT and other shit teams might sway a few Bzzouters back to Waiters, but I don't think it would sway "most" as the TBR indicated. I could see maybe grabbing back some of the Outers that have moved from Wait over the course of this season.
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You don't think that if we consistently executed well on one end of the court it wouldn't sway people? It would sway me because it would show promise. People are buzzout because we are typically a disaster in every possible way. Half court defense, half court offense, transition offense, transition defense. We were pretty bad last night in the half court offense (3-5 shot clock violations and two timeouts because we could get the ball inbounded, and of course our offense rarely creates decent shots unless the defense broken due to a o-rebound), but otherwise looked decent (consistent execution on defense, flawless transition offense).

I don't care about the wins/losses this season. I care about how we look and how we progress. So far, from what we've seen in every other game, this one seems like an aberration but if it wasn't I'd be in a much happier place.
 
DCDeac said:
That was the same type of win our first Maryland game almost was. We just have to know that we're limited on offense and Travis has to be relentless. Then on the defensive end we have to absolutely lock it down.

Actually, those games are oddly similar. CJ went for 10 points instead of 8 but was off both nights. Chase went 1/7 instead of 1/9 for 3 points in both. McKie blew up for 25 and 23, mostly in the 2nd half of both, going 6/8 from deep in the two games combined.

It would be great if at some point in our final few games we could have just one half where we played great defense, got McKie involved on offense, and Chase hit some shots.

CJ/Tony/Nikita are usually going to get what they get. Those seem like our 3 keys.
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Disagree. We weren't good at all in the first half of the Maryland game.
 
TBR said:
People are buzzout because we are typically a disaster in every possible way.
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Being consistent on one end of the court wouldn't even move the needle on my Bzzout meter. That just points to Bzz possibly having a shot at making us a mediocre ACC team IMO, rather than pointing to Bzz actually being the coach Wake Forest needs.
 
HeavyPetter said:
I really don't know what to say. I said that IF we were beating the bad teams more people would be Buzz-wait. The better teams don't have awful coaches who regularly lose to teams that they have more talent than. If the did, they wouldn't be considered to be better.

You'd might as well just accept that Bzz is going to be here next year and that the team is probably going to be marginally better with more promise, which means he will be here the following year as well. You're going to spend a lot more hours bitching between now and the end of the Bzz regime than you did between it's beginning and the present.

But anyway, my point was that if the team had been taking care of business against crap teams like Wofford and whoever else we lost to, while avoiding blowouts to the decent teams, people wouldn't be so distraught at the likelihood of Bzz being around for the forseeable future.

If there is no light at the end of the tunnel by the end of the OOC schedule next year, There will be no such thing as Bzz-in and Bzz-wait.
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I honestly can not believe that this is even still debatable. This was an AWFUL hire from day one, and the best that Buzz-inners/waiters could do is find mitigating factors as to why this was as good as it gets (lack of funds, LOWF).

Some people will say that we are "no Kentucky" and I get that. But we were a consistently good team in a good league, and we were on the up. Yeah we had some flameouts under Odom, Skip, and Dino, but a great coach can take us the next step from where we were...But Wellman hired Buzz and we have fallen down a whole flight of stairs.

There is no doubt in my mind that with the right coach we could be a top-tier program. Taking a chance on somebody like Wes Miller is how you make that happen. And if that doesn't work, then you try something else. Wellman picked a loser in Buzz and tried to tell us that was as good as it gets. Wellman out, Buzz out...Hire a new AD with some energy who actually believes that WF can play with the best (like we have done before) to hire a young coach that will actually build a winner here at Wake.
 
RacerDeac said:
Being consistent on one end of the court wouldn't even move the needle on my Bzzout meter. That just points to Bzz possibly having a shot at making us a mediocre ACC team IMO, rather than pointing to Bzz actually being the coach Wake Forest needs.
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I disagree (obviously). If we only had the recruiting class coming in with no consistency on the court then it would point to [Redacted] making us a mediocre ACC team. If we only had the consistency on the court without the recruiting class coming in then it would point to [Redacted] making us a mediocre ACC team. The combination of the two would make me think that [Redacted] has at least a shot at putting is in the top 3 in the conference. A minuscule shot since the recruiting class isn't all that, but at least a shot.

This whole conversation will likely be made moot by the Miami game.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
I honestly can not believe that this is even still debatable. This was an AWFUL hire from day one, and the best that Buzz-inners/waiters could do is find mitigating factors as to why this was as good as it gets (lack of funds, LOWF).

Some people will say that we are "no Kentucky" and I get that. But we were a consistently good team in a good league, and we were on the up. Yeah we had some flameouts under Odom, Skip, and Dino, but a great coach can take us the next step from where we were...But Wellman hired Buzz and we have fallen down a whole flight of stairs.

There is no doubt in my mind that with the right coach we could be a top-tier program. Taking a chance on somebody like Wes Miller is how you make that happen. And if that doesn't work, then you try something else. Wellman picked a loser in Buzz and tried to tell us that was as good as it gets. Wellman out, Buzz out...Hire a new AD with some energy who actually believes that WF can play with the best (like we have done before) to hire a young coach that will actually build a winner here at Wake.
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Doesn't matter. You need to realize that right now, you're Bzz-stuck.

Even if Wellman got fired tomorrow (which isn't about to happen, so you might want to give upon this hypothetical right now), it will take a couple of months to get a new AD in place and Bzz will be here next year regardless.
 
HeavyPetter said:
Doesn't matter. You need to realize that right now, you're Bzz-stuck.

Even if Wellman got fired tomorrow (which isn't about to happen, so you might want to give upon this hypothetical right now), it will take a couple of months to get a new AD in place and Bzz will be here next year regardless.
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Ha, bzz-stuck. I'm sure you are right. Buzz sucks, but who cares. This is ultimately on RW. If he has the kind of job security that makes this shit-show acceptable, then there really is no hope of ever being truly competitive in sports. I will say that I will not step foot back in the Joel until Buzz and/or RW is gone. I'm sure I'll get plenty of neg-reps for that, but basically what we are seeing is that no one in high up enough to address these issues cares enough to do anything about. The university has basically said fuck you, deal with it.
 
Dear Jaybone:
Thanks for signing your neg rep. Most people do not. I don't know what you were trying to say, but I'm sure it was really smart. Please come back soon and show us how smart you are by being one of only three people in the world who thought Buzz was a good hire and coming up with ridiculous evidence to prove it. While you and Ron are picking fly shit out of the pepper the rest of us would actually like a better coach.
Sincerely,
Turd
 
My point, turd, is that you're not really adding anything new and are a little late to the party. It's like we are all four or five drinks in, and you did 3 lines of blow off your dashboard before walking into the party.

I appreciate the energy, but the song ain't new. Give me something fresh.

Your Bzz loathing ain't gonna get what you want. Pretend you're at the proctologist. My advice is to relax and hope it's over soon. Next year with bzz will happen no matter how much you bleed.

BTW, check out CJ's reaction to the Nikita shot ... too funny. Hey CJ - if you don't want him taking that shot - ran to him and ask for the ball!
 
Yeah, and you might even learn to like it. Wake basketball that is. Not some dude fingering your ass.
 
HeavyPetter said:
Doesn't matter. You need to realize that right now, you're Bzz-stuck.

Even if Wellman got fired tomorrow (which isn't about to happen, so you might want to give upon this hypothetical right now), it will take a couple of months to get a new AD in place and Bzz will be here next year regardless.
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This describes my position on Bz better than BzIn, BzOut or BzWaiting. I am demoralized and depressed over his presence at Wake Forest. I think there is about a 5% chance at best of him ever amounting to jack shit here. But I also know that it will give us a ton more credibility with our next hire if we give him the chance to coach the incoming class for a year, and we will get ripped if we fire him after 2 years with all that happened with Dino - look no further than the "Bottom 10" bit from ESPN that was on here the other day.

If he doesn't win 18 games next year he should be gone.
 
jaybone said:
My point, turd, is that you're not really adding anything new and are a little late to the party. It's like we are all four or five drinks in, and you did 3 lines of blow off your dashboard before walking into the party.

I appreciate the energy, but the song ain't new. Give me something fresh.

Your Bzz loathing ain't gonna get what you want. Pretend you're at the proctologist. My advice is to relax and hope it's over soon. Next year with bzz will happen no matter how much you bleed.

BTW, check out CJ's reaction to the Nikita shot ... too funny. Hey CJ - if you don't want him taking that shot - ran to him and ask for the ball!
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I will agree that none of us are really adding a whole lot at this point, and we never will. We are all chatting on a sports message board while our team sucks ass. If we were in first place, we would still be adding nothing, although it would be more fun doing it. I guess those of us complaining about the current situation and asking for change are about as useful as your prognostications based on one mediocre season in the NBA in the 90s.

I also have no use for those posters who continually chime in to say "another year of Buzz, get over it." The one thing more frustrating than the current state of our basketball program is that nobody is going to even try and fix it. I'm not just buzz out...I'm firmly Ron-out. He has been embarrassingly bad the past half decade, and his leadership "style" will lead to many more years of LOWF mentality around here. I, for one, would rather try something else and actually strive for something better rather than enjoying the permanent status quo. Every historic program at some point hired a coach that began building a legacy. There is no reason that can't happen at Wake...it may be tough, but it will never happen while Ron is running the show.

Lastly, though I am often drunk while posting, I have better things to do while doing blow.
 
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wfumike02 said:
This describes my position on Bz better than BzIn, BzOut or BzWaiting. I am demoralized and depressed over his presence at Wake Forest. I think there is about a 5% chance at best of him ever amounting to jack shit here. But I also know that it will give us a ton more credibility with our next hire if we give him the chance to coach the incoming class for a year, and we will get ripped if we fire him after 2 years with all that happened with Dino - look no further than the "Bottom 10" bit from ESPN that was on here the other day.

If he doesn't win 18 games next year he should be gone.
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I think the Dino-firing was tough to explain (even if I agree with it), but Wellman handled it very poorly. Two things: 1. See the UCLA thread. If they fire their coach after three years they are simply reinforcing the high bar of expectations at UCLA. Coaches will not be afraid to take on the chance to be better there. (I know, we are not UCLA...). 2. Buzz is not Dino. If Buzz is fired every fucking person in the world (except maybe three Wake fans) will agree with the move.

Wellman screwed the pooch with the Dino decisions, but that is not enough of a reason to continue this miserable experiment.
 
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