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Wake / Jackets Game Thread

Three years != two years. If we give him a year with his class it gives us far more credibility with the next hiring cycle.

Like I said, if Bz doesn't win 18 games in year 3 he should be gone, no questions asked.
 
wfumike02 said:
Three years != two years. If we give him a year with his class it gives us far more credibility with the next hiring cycle.

Like I said, if Bz doesn't win 18 games in year 3 he should be gone, no questions asked.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I was comparing the Dino firing (three years). There was no reason to hire Buzz in the first place. We could have fired him after the Black and Gold game in 2010 and not raised a stir.

ETA: I am not a Buzz hater. He was just an awful hire.
 
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Turd Ferguson said:
I will agree that none of us are really adding a whole lot at this point, and we never will. We are all chatting on a sports message board while our team sucks ass. If we were in first place, we would still be adding nothing, although it would be more fun doing it. I guess those of us complaining about the current situation and asking for change are about as useful as your prognostications based on one mediocre season in the NBA in the 90s.

I also have no use for those posters who continually chime in to say "another year of Buzz, get over it." The one thing more frustrating than the current state of our basketball program is that nobody is going to even try and fix it. I'm not just buzz out...I'm firmly Ron-out. He has been embarrassingly bad the past half decade, and his leadership "style" will lead to many more years of LOWF mentality around here. I, for one, would rather try something else and actually strive for something better rather than enjoying the permanent status quo. Every historic program at some point hired a coach that began building a legacy. There is no reason that can't happen at Wake...it may be tough, but it will never happen while Ron is running the show.

Lastly, though I am often drunk while posting, I have better things to do while doing blow.
Click to expand...

Turd:

1-1st paragraph makes sense
2-Indeed there are people working slave hours to try and fix it, you just don't think they can
3-Your argument regarding Wellman is pretty laughable. He's hired two legacy coaches: Grobe, who a little over 5 years ago took us to the Orange Bowl, and Skip, who made our program more than relevant again, it was top tier - we just didn't win in the post season. But those were two great hires.

What you should type is this:

"I'm young, I'm half drunk, I want it now. Wellman is old. I'm not. I want change I can believe in! For like 12 months before I re-judge all over again."

I have no problem with buzz-outers. Really don't. I can even understand an argument that Ron needs to be held more accountable, but just to lay out the last 12 years for you:

* He hired Skip, who totally changed the culture. We were relevant, exciting, packed the Joel, and Skip swung for the fences in recruiting, going toe to toe with Duke, Carolina, Indiana, Gtech, and fucking Ohio fucking State.

* He hire Grobe and directed the remaking of our football stadium under limited funds

* Directed additional upgrades in practice facilities, baseball stadium, soccer, etc...

* Has been AD of a department that has won national championships in men's soccer and women's field hockey, went to the Orange Bowl, received #1 and #2 seeds in the NCAA tournament, etc...

Dude, about a year before Skip died, it had never been so fucking good at Wake. As in ever. If anybody is singularly responsible for dashing the LOWF moniker, it's fucking Ron, dipshit. Seriously, catch a clue, catch something anyway, a cold, a sexually transmitted disease, anything, because you aren't capturing what has gone done within the athletic department over the last 12 years, 5 years, etc...

If you want to lay blame on the basketball program, here are the variables, if you ask me: power conference expansion, Butler, Jay Vidovich, Ohio State, Skip's heart, the internet, and the money in college athletics

* If Butler doesn't happen, Ron and Hatch maybe don't have the courage to tear down to build up
* If Vidovich hadn't so dramatically succeeded after his predecessor died of a heart attack at Wake, maybe Ron doesn't consider Dino after the exact same thing happens to the basketball program
* If Matta wasn't just goddamn it, good at what he does, Conley, Oden, and probably Cook come to Wake and history changes
* Our success within the NCAA dynamic can't just stand still like it is 2007. Calipari at Kentucky has happened, conferences are realigning, money is being made hand over fist - truth is what worked in 2007 is going to antiquated in 2012 and that's one of Ron's challenges.

Edited to add one other variable: fucking PITTSNOGLE and the white guard WE NEVER FUCKING GUARDED EVEN THOUGH HE WAS HITTING SHOT AFTER SHOT

There you go, have at it.
 
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I don't always agree with Bone but that was a great post. All of those things contributed because at Wake Forest "shit happens" and has been since our last Final 4 run.

For me when I know someone isn't the guy for the long term I believe you should cut bait sooner rather than later. Buzz will not be here in 3 years. I know this because Skip taught us we could have a coach who would swing for the fence, love Wake Forest and inspire the fans.
 
Ha. I am definitely older than you must think I am. I give RW credit for many things he has done well at Wake. The past six or so years just weren't good. I'm sure there are plenty of difficulties facing ADs these days...fact is though that there are plenty of other schools that are getting it done.

RW gets credit for Grobe and all the renovations. I also give him credit for Skip, who I agree with you led Wake to new heights in basketball. But I think you should have to continue making good decisions to keep your job. If Wellman has done enough to secure sainthood in your mind, fine, but I hold him accountable for much of what is going on now in basketball. He hired/extended/botched the firing of Dino, but many use the Dino debacle (firing too early, no good reasons for firing, lack of funds due to inexplicable buyout) to explain why Buzz was the best coach we could hope to get. That's on Ron.

And none of this is personal for me. I don't despise Wellman, Buzz, and certainly not our team. It is typical for waiters/inners/RWlovers to try and cast posters like me as young, or unrealistic, or spoiled. WTF ever. I don't care how old Ron or Buzz are, I care more that this is probably the worst basketball team I have ever seen and we are arguing whether some has been coach (who never really was) is the answer. It's not that Buzz is old, it's that he managed to get that way without doing anything worthy of being hired at Wake. I'd rather go after a young up-and-comer and take a chance. Every great dynasty starts with that kind of hire. Ron will not do that.

Maybe I should just sit back, too, and hope for a 14 win year next year and maybe even some post season play in two years while some other school hires the Smarts and Millers of the coaching world.
 
Here's the thing Turd, you make some fairly good points, in a rambling slapstick kind of way, and then you mention Miller and you lose all credibility with me.

You talking the 28 year old Miller who has coached 5 games? And use him in the same sentence with Smart? Insanity. I don't know how to couch this other than saying that is just plain idiotic.

Shaka Smart became Shaka Smart by sitting on the bench next to Anthony Grant and Herman Munster at Florida, and then Anthony Grant at VCU.

Miller has done what again? Produced a 30 second video encouraging students without using any ums or ahs?

I don't want a guy with 20 hours of flight time in the cockpit flying any airliner I'm on. Call me old school. Or just rational
 
jaybone said:
Here's the thing Turd, you make some fairly good points, in a rambling slapstick kind of way, and then you mention Miller and you lose all credibility with me.

You talking the 28 year old Miller who has coached 5 games? And use him in the same sentence with Smart? Insanity. I don't know how to couch this other than saying that is just plain idiotic.

Shaka Smart became Shaka Smart by sitting on the bench next to Anthony Grant and Herman Munster at Florida, and then Anthony Grant at VCU.

Miller has done what again? Produced a 30 second video encouraging students without using any ums or ahs?

I don't want a guy with 20 hours of flight time in the cockpit flying any airliner I'm on. Call me old school. Or just rational
Click to expand...

Ha. I like how your pseudo-compliments are back-handed at best! Well, we just see this differently. I think we agree on alot of things Wake Forest. RW did a hell of a job, Skip changed the world, some bad shit happened. Where to go moving forward is the issue. Every year wasted on Buzz could be spent with a potential HR hire. This isn't an airliner. Cautious and boring and safe landings aren't the goal. If we miss on a young hire, we try again. How in the world is that any worse than what is going on now.

That's it. I'll leave you alone now. Go Wake.

ETA: Sorry for calling you a bitch in my neg rep. Wishing an STD on anyone is below the belt.
 
Turd -- you meant Sean Miller, right? The guy that has been to two Elite 8s and a Sweet 16 in the last 4 seasons?


What are you on about, jaybone?
 
deacvision7 said:
Turd -- you meant Sean Miller, right? The guy that has been to two Elite 8s and a Sweet 16 in the last 4 seasons?


What are you on about, jaybone?
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Lulz, no. He was talking about Wes Miller methinks, the hot topic of the week in our boards coaching search.
 
jaybone said:
Here's the thing Turd, you make some fairly good points, in a rambling slapstick kind of way, and then you mention Miller and you lose all credibility with me.

You talking the 28 year old Miller who has coached 5 games? And use him in the same sentence with Smart? Insanity. I don't know how to couch this other than saying that is just plain idiotic.

Shaka Smart became Shaka Smart by sitting on the bench next to Anthony Grant and Herman Munster at Florida, and then Anthony Grant at VCU.

Miller has done what again? Produced a 30 second video encouraging students without using any ums or ahs?

I don't want a guy with 20 hours of flight time in the cockpit flying any airliner I'm on. Call me old school. Or just rational
Click to expand...

Clearly you'd prefer a guy with 20 years of flying experience but who's never managed to get around to actually landing a plane...
 
FOR THE LAST TIME, WES MILLER IS 29 YEARS OLD, NOT 28.
 
wfumike02 said:
Clearly you'd prefer a guy with 20 years of flying experience but who's never managed to get around to actually landing a plane...
Click to expand...

I think this is a good point. There's no hope that this will get better under Bz because evidence only supports otherwise.
 
jaybone said:
Turd:

1-1st paragraph makes sense
2-Indeed there are people working slave hours to try and fix it, you just don't think they can
3-Your argument regarding Wellman is pretty laughable. He's hired two legacy coaches: Grobe, who a little over 5 years ago took us to the Orange Bowl, and Skip, who made our program more than relevant again, it was top tier - we just didn't win in the post season. But those were two great hires.

What you should type is this:

"I'm young, I'm half drunk, I want it now. Wellman is old. I'm not. I want change I can believe in! For like 12 months before I re-judge all over again."

I have no problem with buzz-outers. Really don't. I can even understand an argument that Ron needs to be held more accountable, but just to lay out the last 12 years for you:

* He hired Skip, who totally changed the culture. We were relevant, exciting, packed the Joel, and Skip swung for the fences in recruiting, going toe to toe with Duke, Carolina, Indiana, Gtech, and fucking Ohio fucking State.

* He hire Grobe and directed the remaking of our football stadium under limited funds

* Directed additional upgrades in practice facilities, baseball stadium, soccer, etc...

* Has been AD of a department that has won national championships in men's soccer and women's field hockey, went to the Orange Bowl, received #1 and #2 seeds in the NCAA tournament, etc...

Dude, about a year before Skip died, it had never been so fucking good at Wake. As in ever. If anybody is singularly responsible for dashing the LOWF moniker, it's fucking Ron, dipshit. Seriously, catch a clue, catch something anyway, a cold, a sexually transmitted disease, anything, because you aren't capturing what has gone done within the athletic department over the last 12 years, 5 years, etc...

If you want to lay blame on the basketball program, here are the variables, if you ask me: power conference expansion, Butler, Jay Vidovich, Ohio State, Skip's heart, the internet, and the money in college athletics

* If Butler doesn't happen, Ron and Hatch maybe don't have the courage to tear down to build up
* If Vidovich hadn't so dramatically succeeded after his predecessor died of a heart attack at Wake, maybe Ron doesn't consider Dino after the exact same thing happens to the basketball program
* If Matta wasn't just goddamn it, good at what he does, Conley, Oden, and probably Cook come to Wake and history changes
* Our success within the NCAA dynamic can't just stand still like it is 2007. Calipari at Kentucky has happened, conferences are realigning, money is being made hand over fist - truth is what worked in 2007 is going to antiquated in 2012 and that's one of Ron's challenges.

Edited to add one other variable: fucking PITTSNOGLE and the white guard WE NEVER FUCKING GUARDED EVEN THOUGH HE WAS HITTING SHOT AFTER SHOT

There you go, have at it.
Click to expand...

RIP Turd
 
Yes, he meant Wes Miller, the guy with 5 games of head coaching experience under his belt.
 
wfumike02 said:
Three years != two years. If we give him a year with his class it gives us far more credibility with the next hiring cycle.

Like I said, if Bz doesn't win 18 games in year 3 he should be gone, no questions asked.
Click to expand...

Who is on next year's schedule?
 
jaybone said:
Here's the thing Turd, you make some fairly good points, in a rambling slapstick kind of way, and then you mention Miller and you lose all credibility with me.

You talking the 28 year old Miller who has coached 5 games? And use him in the same sentence with Smart? Insanity. I don't know how to couch this other than saying that is just plain idiotic.

Shaka Smart became Shaka Smart by sitting on the bench next to Anthony Grant and Herman Munster at Florida, and then Anthony Grant at VCU.

Miller has done what again? Produced a 30 second video encouraging students without using any ums or ahs?

I don't want a guy with 20 hours of flight time in the cockpit flying any airliner I'm on. Call me old school. Or just rational
Click to expand...

it's eddie munster dummy.
 
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