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ACC Sports Journal tackles [Redacted]

IAppreciateIt said:
Fantastically snarky response that completely misses the point.

Let's recap:

deaclite: Our new recruiting strategy is stupid, we need to go after good players.
Me: Our staff thinks we are getting good players.
JackBurden(?): [see above]
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theres a point, youre just too dense to get it. outside of certain limited circumstances, offering a player is prima facie evidence that a coaching staff thinks a player is good, so your analysis was on par with saying that water is wet. a reasonable person will then turn to recruiting rankings, offer lists, and game film to get a consensus opinion on the player. do that with our recruits, particularly the 2012 guys, and the outlook isnt too rosy.
 
Kent said:
Are you saying that Buzz decided, on his initiative, to stop recruiting the players that we were previously mentioned with in favor of these guys? What I want to know (and you seem very learned about who and why WFU recruits, so maybe you can tell me) is- were these the players Buzz picked out of the universe of reasonable possibilities?

And FWIW, I don't think Buzz has any special abilities whatsoever when it comes to picking hidden diamonds out of the rough. I think he sees the same things other coaches see- and that diamond in the rough mining is more about statistics and chance than some secret formula that only some know. If he was a recruiting alchemist, he would have a better career record.
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I think both Rountree and CMM were made priorities by the staff. That doesn't mean they were absolutely the top players on our board, but they are both guys we really wanted, despite the fact that they don't have a bunch of stars from the recruiting sites, at least not yet.

I am completely positive that talent evaluation is a skill, and some people are better than others. Don't believe that's debatable. The fact that Bzz is a former scout (including work scouting college prospects), as well as a pretty good record of finding solid players at Colorado make me optimistic that he's pretty good at it.
 
JackBurden said:
theres a point, youre just too dense to get it. outside of certain limited circumstances, offering a player is prima facie evidence that a coaching staff thinks a player is good, so your analysis was on par with saying that water is wet. a reasonable person will then turn to recruiting rankings, offer lists, and game film to get a consensus opinion on the player. do that with our recruits, particularly the 2012 guys, and the outlook isnt too rosy.
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Again, fantastically snarky. Again, completely missing the point.

Using your analogy, the posts I replied to were arguing that water isn't wet. Or, in this case, we were purposely going after mediocre players because of their socks, etc.
 
meh, didnt mean to be that snarky. dont want to put words into lite's mouth, but have a hard time seeing how you could fail to interpret his posts as putting more confidence in offer lists and recruiting rankings than the staff's judgment, and your post did absolutely nothing to refute that. bring up bzz's track record if you want (which is far too hit-or-miss to be impressive, imo), but posting that the staff thinks were bringing in good kids provides zero analytical value.
 
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If we are shooting to be middle of the conference, I suppose that is possible if we upgrade at the 4 and 5. Still we need much more star power to get close to the top of the ACC.
 
JackBurden said:
im not sure that you understand the phrase "missing the point." anyone with a modicum of intelligence should have been able to figure out that an average bzz critic doesn't trust the staff's judgment ahead of those of telep, other high majors, etc. and your saying the staff believes we're getting good players(!) does nothing to refute that.

on the advice of mark twain, i will discontinue this discussion.
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I know you are putting a lot of effort into the e-intellectual act, but take a step back and it's should be easy for you to figure this out.

There is a fairly significant portion of the fanbase who believe that our coaches (and Wellman) are no longer interested in winning at the highest level, and are content taking mediocre players just because they behave well off the court.

I'm just trying to refute this notion. Our staff truly believes that our 2012 commits are great players, despite the fact that they aren't highly rated at this point. You can agree or disagree with the staff on that, and like I said earlier, it's completely understandable why someone would be skeptical. However, claiming that we aren't even trying to get players who can win at a high level would be inaccurate, at least based on what I know.

Taking Mark Twain's advice is fine. I wish you'd take Muhammad Ali's advice. And put some boxing gloves on. Because then you wouldn't be able to type.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
There is a fairly significant portion of the fanbase who believe that our coaches (and Wellman) are no longer interested in winning at the highest level, and are content taking mediocre players just because they behave well off the court.
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deaclite, is this what you meant by your post?

i have a feeling iappreciateit (quite ironically) missed the point of your post, and is now trying to cover his tracks by bringing in irrelevancies to make his initial post look less stupid. not working out well for him, although he did do an excellent job of refuting a point no one raised.
 
JackBurden said:
deaclite, is this what you meant by your post?

i have a feeling iappreciateit (quite ironically) missed the point of your post, and is now trying to cover his tracks by bringing in irrelevancies to make his initial post look less stupid. not working out well for him, although he did do an excellent job of refuting a point no one raised.
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#IRONY
 
From the thread title, I was hoping ACCSportsJournal was a poster and the story had nothing to do with an article.
 
Not at all, I think they want to bring in top talent but a lot of recruiting doors remain shut to us for various reasons. If they got out in front and snagged a couple of gems for 2012 that would be impressive and important. We should wait for the CC and go from there.
 
deaclite said:
Not at all, I think they want to bring in top talent but a lot of recruiting doors remain shut to us for various reasons. If they got out in front and snagged a couple of gems for 2012 that would be impressive and important. We should wait for the CC and go from there.
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exactly what I thought. thanks for clearing things up.
 
I'm sure Bzzz would take a roster full of four and five star players -- if he could get them. My concern is that this new "strategy" is nothing more than cover for the fact Bzzz will not be in play for top talent. Bzzz is very good at convincing a segment of this fanbase to lower its expectations for some reason.
 
deacinwnc said:
I'm sure Bzzz would take a roster full of four and five star players -- if he could get them. My concern is that this new "strategy" is nothing more than cover for the fact Bzzz will not be in play for top talent. Bzzz is very good at convincing a segment of this fanbase to lower its expectations for some reason.
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And what I've been saying is, while he could be wrong, Bzzz thinks that our 2012 recruits are indeed top talents.
 
IAppreciateIt said:
And what I've been saying is, while he could be wrong, Bzzz thinks that our 2012 recruits are indeed top talents.
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Unfortunately all we can do is hope he's right. But is this what every Bzzz recruiting class will look like? A bunch of lower rated Bzzz recruits we have to hope and pray are sleepers? Sure one or two may slip through the cracks of the recruiting game and be big surprises. But the odds over time are against this strategy succeeding on an extended basis, IMO.

I'd like to see Bzzz in the running for top talent. What would really impress me with Bzzz's recruiting style is if he actually had a 4 or 5 star recruit who wanted to commit to Wake who Bzzz passed over for a sleeper 2 or 3 star recruit. Then I'd say Bzzz has some balls and there may be something to this notion that Bzzz can spot talent others don't see. But it's easy for him to be in love with a class when that's the best he could do.
 
0.jpg


Terrible photo, but this strategy reminds me of this scene from The Patriot.
 
I don't know if we really could have gotten anyone else better, I don't know that for sure. It seems this team will do one of two things next season win less then 8 games although I don't see that happening or improve somewhat in the next few years! I cannot see [Redacted] making any kind of impact on the program until he recruits good players. It will be really tough with the likes of three other schools in North Carolina competing in the ACC, but even then like alot of people on here I am not convinced he is the answer to our problems for the next few years!
 
deacinwnc said:
Unfortunately all we can do is hope he's right. But is this what every Bzzz recruiting class will look like? A bunch of lower rated Bzzz recruits we have to hope and pray are sleepers? Sure one or two may slip through the cracks of the recruiting game and be big surprises. But the odds over time are against this strategy succeeding on an extended basis, IMO.

I'd like to see Bzzz in the running for top talent. What would really impress me with Bzzz's recruiting style is if he actually had a 4 or 5 star recruit who wanted to commit to Wake who Bzzz passed over for a sleeper 2 or 3 star recruit. Then I'd say Bzzz has some balls and there may be something to this notion that Bzzz can spot talent others don't see. But it's easy for him to be in love with a class when that's the best he could do.
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Isn't that what happened, to different degrees, with Sullivan, Larkin and Lewis?

Obviously it's not this cut and dry, but suppose our initial recruiting board consisted of 15 targets who would be really good gets -- most of them would also be highly rated by the gurus, but there might be a few that aren't. Obviously the latter group is going to be easier to land than the former, which includes guys who we might have missed on (Arcidiacano, Ogbueze, Harrell), and guys who we're still recruiting (Jankovic, Warren, Hornbeak).
 
Very good article. This season has lead me to feel like a State fan, looking to the greatness of the past rather than the present. Some of the boys have some decent talent, but after this season, I have little faith that [Redacted] will be able to do anything with it. After Iowa, I have some faith that maybe we'd be able to pull out at some wins in the ACC. Then ACC play started.
So now I ask, how did we get here?
 
I tend to think that under the radar recruits are generally under the radar for a reason. Obviously there will be exceptions, but as a whole I just don't believe that other programs and scouts miss that many recruits, and it seems to be a bit much to assume this is the case for every player [Redacted] has been able to get to commit here.

Furthermore, the lack of big men in these classes is disturbing, especially combined with the fact we're still going after guards.

To get this program back to where it was we're going to need some "over the radar" recruits.
 
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