ACC Sports Journal tackles [Redacted]

[DeacHawk]

Agree about rolling the dice on high risk/reward players, like Ty.

IIRC, both Tony Woods and especially Ty Walker were considered projects with loads of potential upside.

An argument could be made that Eric Williams was another lock, given he was a McDonald's AA, but it'd have to be pretty convincing. He showed up to campus at what, 330 pounds?

i'd put him in the "lock" category. I thought he'd be just like Robert Traylor from Michigan, obviously without the taking money from boosters stuff Traylor did.

 

[CHillDeac]

By this time next year, the Wake Forest basketball discussion could be about much more than just whether one season was a success or not. The future of the basketball program, a pretty consistent winner and client pleaser for more than 35 years, may be on the line.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

Who shut down Carmelo back in the day? I get all of our mediocre hyperbole mixed up now.

Sounds like a job for Richard Joyce.

 

[deacvision7]

Wake has been getting sleepers that the big boys supposedly overlooked for years now.

For every James Johnson, there's 10 Cam Stan's.

OTOH, only two "locks" have committed in the last decade. CP3 and Farouq.

Big E?

 

[ColdHardFactsDeac]

Weren't Walker and Woods both supposed to be "locks" as well? I'm asking this more in the sense of refreshing my memory, and less in the sense of saying that recruiting 5* players doesn't always work out. I'd rather take the chance that a 5* doesn't work out then pray that a 2* turns out to be a stud.

Neither was top 25 in the RSCI rankings, meaning neither was a consensus 5-star recruit as ranked by the 7 major scouting services. Both were high potential projects that were ranked 4-stars in the aggregate based on their rankings (Ty was #37, Woods #41). Walker was a 5-star in 4 of 7 sites, but two sites didn't think all that highly of him, while Woods rankings were more consistent, garnering 1 narrowly 5-star rating from rivals and 4-star on all the other sites.

 

[3gendeac]

Since I don't have a say or a choice, I'm going to wait and see how next year goes. Hopefully, it will be significantly better than this year. Won't be too surprised if it isn't but hey I like surprises!

 

[Ball State Deac]

 

[Deacsfan27]

Neither was top 25 in the RSCI rankings, meaning neither was a consensus 5-star recruit as ranked by the 7 major scouting services. Both were high potential projects that were ranked 4-stars in the aggregate based on their rankings (Ty was #37, Woods #41). Walker was a 5-star in 4 of 7 sites, but two sites didn't think all that highly of him, while Woods rankings were more consistent, garnering 1 narrowly 5-star rating from rivals and 4-star on all the other sites.

If I'm reading that correctly, somebody had him at #92. Kudos to that guy for calling it closer to correct.

 

[kennylogginsfan]

Please tell me what are the "right type of players" for his system and how long are you willing to give him to implement it? What do the players he's bringing in have that the players this year were so lacking in? What makes the new recruits the right kinds of players for his system? And have you been able to figure out what exactly is this system is that he will be implementing? If you can't clearly explain to me exactly what his system is how do you know he's bringing in the right kinds of players for it? I know he's supposed to be a great x's and o's coach (that's what we heard ad nauseum before the season and this article mentions he's a "basketball geek") but with a few exceptions I saw little sign of his brilliance this season. Anyway, I hope he's able to knock our socks off with his system, whatever it is, next season. But I'm skeptical. After this season I see little room for optimism.

Good questions Stack.

 

[JackBurden]

Our staff believes they are getting very, very good players. Especially in the 2012 class.

Well, that's a fucking shock. I heard nobody on the staff ever thought Ty Walker, Kevin Swinton, or Jeremy Ingram would be any good and they just took them on as acts of charity or, in Swinton's case, to avoid being plastered with paintballs. I'm confident this bold new strategy of recruiting kids we think are good will be the key to turning the program around.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

Well, that's a fucking shock. I heard nobody on the staff ever thought Ty Walker, Kevin Swinton, or Jeremy Ingram would be any good and they just took them on as acts of charity or, in Swinton's case, to avoid being plastered with paintballs. I'm confident this bold new strategy of recruiting kids we think are good will be the key to turning the program around.

Fantastically snarky response that completely misses the point.

Let's recap:

deaclite: Our new recruiting strategy is stupid, we need to go after good players.
Me: Our staff thinks we are getting good players.
JackBurden(?): [see above]

 

[ChrisL68]

I would hope our staff would say they think they are getting some good players, even if they don't believe it.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

I would hope our staff would say they think they are getting some good players, even if they don't believe it.

For sure, but I'm talking about their actions. Our 2012 commits were both high priorities for us, and that's because our staff thought they were pretty good players. It's not a Shamaine Dukes, or even class of 2006, situation where we missed out on our top targets and were had to move to our backup plans, along with some "insider" recruiting news as well as independent reports.

Now it's just a question of how much you believe in the staff's ability to evaluate players.

 

[deaclite]

Fantastically snarky response that completely misses the point.

Let's recap:

deaclite: Our new recruiting strategy is stupid, we need to go after good players.
Me: Our staff thinks we are getting good players.
JackBurden(?): [see above]

I said that our recruiting strategy is not likely to put us in contention for championships.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

I said that our recruiting strategy is not likely to put us in contention for championships.

I understand your skepticism, but until proven otherwise, I'm going to trust our coaching staff's evaluations over those of the gurus. I'm optimistic that our commits can/will be more than role players.

 

[deaclite]

Well said, I will not be satisfied with that outcome as well. There are no guarantees about how Bz.'s guys will fit in either. Our recruiting stategy appears unlikely to get us into championship contention.

Here we go, if you are going to quote me at least get in the ballpark of what I actually said.

 

[KeEpEr]

Dave Odom attempted to recruit better players than he gets credit for. He did not roll the dice like Skip did and have no backup plan. That's why Skip finished last and tenth and Odom dropped only to the middle of the conference.

 

[deaclite]

We have been subject to some cheerleading in the past. I just would prefer some independent views.

 

[deaclite]

Odom did get better recruits than the article said but he did have a ton of transfers as well.

 

[Kent]

For sure, but I'm talking about their actions. Our 2012 commits were both high priorities for us, and that's because our staff thought they were pretty good players. It's not a Shamaine Dukes, or even class of 2006, situation where we missed out on our top targets and were had to move to our backup plans, along with some "insider" recruiting news as well as independent reports.

Now it's just a question of how much you believe in the staff's ability to evaluate players.

Are you saying that Buzz decided, on his initiative, to stop recruiting the players that we were previously mentioned with in favor of these guys? What I want to know (and you seem very learned about who and why WFU recruits, so maybe you can tell me) is- were these the players Buzz picked out of the universe of reasonable possibilities?

And FWIW, I don't think Buzz has any special abilities whatsoever when it comes to picking hidden diamonds out of the rough. I think he sees the same things other coaches see- and that diamond in the rough mining is more about statistics and chance than some secret formula that only some know. If he was a recruiting alchemist, he would have a better career record.