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2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

Seems like every time I open this thread the chances of beating Trump go down. Haven't just about all of us who are registered Dems said that we would vote for whoever the nominee is we'll vote for that person?
 
ChrisL68 said:
Does that apply to statements and positions of Joe Biden from 1973?

asking for a friend.
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shit this might blow your friend's mind a bit, but it's up to you! you get to decide whether a specific candidate is capable of change for yourself! wow!

don't be anti-segregation, tho!
 
RJKarl said:
For values of an adult to have changed, a person had to have had weak or untoward values.

Attitudes can easily change with more information or simple life events.
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You literally shared your politics with the whole board (and Russia). They’re far too inconsistent for you to be this self-assured.
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
shit this might blow your friend's mind a bit, but it's up to you! you get to decide whether a specific candidate is capable of change for yourself! wow!

don't be anti-segregation, tho!
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There were plenty of white politicians on the right side of history at that time, too !!!
 
cville deac said:
Seems like every time I open this thread the chances of beating Trump go down. Haven't just about all of us who are registered Dems said that we would vote for whoever the nominee is we'll vote for that person?
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why do you keep opening the thread?
 
cville deac said:
Seems like every time I open this thread the chances of beating Trump go down. Haven't just about all of us who are registered Dems said that we would vote for whoever the nominee is we'll vote for that person?
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Yes. But Liz dissed Bernie yo
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
shit this might blow your friend's mind a bit, but it's up to you! you get to decide whether a specific candidate is capable of change for yourself! wow!

don't be anti-segregation, tho!
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So, IOW, it is proper for the media to report on these things and it is up to the voters to decide whether or not they are important?
 
ChrisL68 said:
So, IOW, it is proper for the media to report on these things and it is up to the voters to decide whether or not they are important?
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TIL that ChrisL doesn't think a Biden's terrible stance on busing is important
 
ChrisL68 said:
So, IOW, it is proper for the media to report on these things and it is up to the voters to decide whether or not they are important?
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i already laid out my news media philosophy - that it's primarily been coopted by entertainment in the interest of extracting attention for Capital's sake - so no, proper is not the word I would use. the myth that civic engagement is defined by how many podcasts you listen to or how many morning newsletters you read before you get out of bed or how many Tweets you scroll through (media!) must die.

just me tho
 
RJKarl said:
For values of an adult to have changed, a person had to have had weak or untoward values.

Attitudes can easily change with more information or simple life events.
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yes we always move toward a better idea of what is worthy of admiration. always.
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
i already laid out my news media philosophy - that it's primarily been coopted by entertainment in the interest of extracting attention for Capital's sake - so no, proper is not the word I would use. the myth that civic engagement is defined by how many podcasts you listen to or how many morning newsletters you read before you get out of bed or how many Tweets you scroll through (media!) must die.

just me tho
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what's your preferred metric of civic engagement
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
the superiority move at the end seems a little unnecessary/insecure but I would genuinely like to hear your perspective.
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You you have to understand that a lot of my posting here needs to be viewed through the prism of the sanctimonious moralizing and virtue signaling that both Townie and Strickland regularly engage in on viewpoints that diverge from their own.

At work now but I'll comment on my unpleasant busing experiences tonight.
 
metric? i'm not sure the goal is to measure civic engagement. in terms of praxis? certainly at some level you must recognize and remove yourself (perhaps not entirely, but certainly some individuals could certainly stand to reduce their consumption) from this attention-grabbing apparatus of major media entertainment. the common frame that one might use to more accurately criticize modern media consumption is the business/product paradigm. it extracts attention from persuading you this is a vital product for you to consume to participate in society. that is often, [not always!] a lie.

what does civic engagement/politics look like? different based on location, but some potentialities: (1) individual volunteer work [ex. PGH has a fantastic "Garbage Olympics" event between neighborhoods] (2) organizational work [ex. supporting the efforts of a political campaign is obvious, but so are non-political groups like BigBroBigSis] (3) local participation [ex. actually attending city council meetings occasionally, not that difficult!], and finally [the least important for this particular group to me personally, but the one that major media entertainment push as the solution] is (4) electoral process [voting]
 
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Robert M. Pirsig said:
metric? i'm not sure the goal is to measure civic engagement. in terms of praxis? certainly at some level you must recognize and remove yourself (perhaps not entirely, but certainly some individuals could certainly stand to reduce their consumption) from this attention-grabbing apparatus of major media entertainment. what does civic engagement/politics look like? different based on location, but some potentialities: (1) individual volunteer work [ex. PGH has a fantastic "Garbage Olympics" event between neighborhoods] (2) organizational work [ex. supporting the efforts of a political campaign is obvious, but so are non-political groups like BigBroBigSis] (3) local participation [ex. actually attending city council meetings occasionally, not that difficult!], and finally [the least important for this particular group to me personally, but the one that major media entertainment push as the solution] is (4) electoral process [voting]
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that doesn't really answer the question. metric is a poor choice.

is someone who follows twitter, reads VOX, watches the debates, etc. more civically engaged than a person who does nothing except go to the poll on election day?
 
ImTheCaptain said:
that doesn't really answer the question. metric is a poor choice.

is someone who follows twitter, reads VOX, watches the debates, etc. more civically engaged than a person who does nothing except go to the poll on election day?
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that's a easier question to answer. thanks. i think if we're following the binary you've established [not a false one, but a strict one nonetheless] then it would be hard to argue that the person who did nothing until election day is anything but less civically engaged.

however, by uncritically taking one's media consumption as a sign of civic engagement [in some cases as the sign. seriously! some people think just staying up to date is it] I think we pretty radically devalue options 1-4 above. even worse, we're just propping up media systems that serve us content designed to maximize our attention on their platforms/publications/etc.
 
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