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2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

birdman said:
To be fair you did call him a boomer in your first post, pretty big insult.
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Coming from a millennial, it's a badge of honor. They have to have someone to blame for everything in their lives.
 
i mean, calling someone a liar on a national televised debate to save face or gain political advantage might say something about a person

hypothetically speaking, of course
 
ImTheCaptain said:
i mean, calling someone a liar on a national televised debate to save face or gain political advantage might say something about a person

hypothetically speaking, of course
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Why is the assumption that this is about Bernie necessarily?

Warren is the one who made the statement.
 
PhDeac said:
Townie’s post exemplifies why the criticisms of Biden’s record fall flat. Those criticisms are blatantly linked to getting Bernie elected. If they were about Biden himself, they would have been prominent during his 2008 run or when he was picked as VP or any time before he declared.
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I definitely disagree with this, mostly because I've already stated why I think he has a bad record and I find that more compelling than trying to play polysci historian. But to address your point, 2008 was a three horse race for the most part between Obama, Clinton, and Edwards. Biden barely raised any money and never really got much support. His profile was raised by being VP, and we're talking about his record now because the party and conversation around it has been pulled left.

He basically ran on "I can run a better Iraq War than Hillary." And he explicitly stopped short of campaigning for universal health coverage. He didn't make enough of an impact in the race for anyone to really challenge him on his voting record then. Now that he's a frontrunner in 2020, it stands to reason we're examining his record, and that he'll be viewed in comparison with another frontrunner.
 
Of course you aren't interested in dealing with the reality of the election and what's important.
 
I'm just simply not interested in the Bernie-Warren meeting or the handshake or anything else. Sorry for the long rambles, it's clearly a great story for ChrisL and the center and for Trump when the progressive candidates are infighting. I do think the framing of questions was biased against Bernie and to a lesser extent Warren. I think media coverage serves not to help us pick the right candidate but to drive more viewership, and the same can be said for investigating and impeaching Trump.

Anyway, I committed to 6 hrs of phone banking and texting for Sanders and Warren this weekend, gonna sign off politics til then.
 
TownieDeac said:
I definitely disagree with this, mostly because I've already stated why I think he has a bad record and I find that more compelling than trying to play polysci historian. But to address your point, 2008 was a three horse race for the most part between Obama, Clinton, and Edwards. Biden barely raised any money and never really got much support. His profile was raised by being VP, and we're talking about his record now because the party and conversation around it has been pulled left.

He basically ran on "I can run a better Iraq War than Hillary." And he explicitly stopped short of campaigning for universal health coverage. He didn't make enough of an impact in the race for anyone to really challenge him on his voting record then. Now that he's a frontrunner in 2020, it stands to reason we're examining his record, and that he'll be viewed in comparison with another frontrunner.
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Townie on Biden before Biden challenged Bernie:

TownieDeac said:
Honestly, I could see being swayed by a truly great orator even if you hated them (e.g., a social conservative hating Obama) but I can't see someone ambivalent or worse on Hillary really pumped about any speech she's gonna give. She's just not that dynamic. It's not one of her strengths. They could write her the best speech the DNC has ever seen, but I just don't think she can deliver it. When Obama or Biden smiles, it's easy to feel the warmth behind it. That is likely just not part of Hillary's personality.
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TownieDeac said:
if y'all noticed that "cancer moonshot" shoutout last night, you can thank my organization for their work with joe biden this past month

really cool to hear the stuff that's been going on in our office make it to the state of the union
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I had forgotten about all your praise for Biden during this period.


This one is even about Bernie back in 2015.
TownieDeac said:
I disagree strongly. If he gets forced out by an establishment candidate, which is certainly possible, and if it's Biden, fine.

But if he is the guy, I don't think you really have any basis to say how he'll do against Rubio/Bush. Especially not if he gets a good running mate.
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TownieDeac said:
he was a decent senator though, no? more substance than obama, for sure.
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There was relatively little criticism of Biden's past until he ran against Bernie. It's going to be hard to convince people that someone they've liked for decades is a horrible person based on a record that was around when they decided to like him in the first place.
 
PhDeac said:
Townie on Biden before Biden challenged Bernie:





I had forgotten about all your praise for Biden during this period.


This one is even about Bernie back in 2015.




There was relatively little criticism of Biden's past until he ran against Bernie. It's going to be hard to convince people that someone they've liked for decades is a horrible person based on a record that was around when they decided to like him in the first place.
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WFcatamount22 said:
Bernie is a horrible person.
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He's not a bad person, but he is a bad candidate.

Still don't get answers as to why it's OK to talk about Biden's past votes or where Pete or Warren worked, but it's wrong to talk about how much Bernie was in the NRA's pocket in the early 00s until he decided to become a national candidate. He vote THREE times in the 00s for the NRA when almost all Dems and progressives opposed those votes.

It's totally dishonest to bring up other people's bad votes or to diminish positive actions of others while attacking anyone who brings up Bernie's similar votes/actions.

Again, none of this matters if the Dems try to make the election about issues/policies rather than Trump, Trump and more Trump. You don't beat a criminal bully by avoiding him.
 
tiltdeac said:
...On one hand, this feels like it drags out forever, and we should all know everything we need to know about the candidates at this point, which opens the door to dumb bullshit. But I also think the reality is that most people actually don't know those things. Obviously we on this board are not representative of the public, and it's a pretty informed bunch on here in general, but there's plenty on the policy side that I still don't understand. I think the median citizen knows very little about their policies, and the subtle differences between them, despite all the time and opportunity. And part of that is that people just don't give a shit, which we can't really control. But part of it is the media, too. They do a great job of sensationalizing, and a shit job of teaching. It would be a public good if we could figure out a way to flip that.
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Yep
 
Does that apply to statements and positions of Joe Biden from 1973?

asking for a friend.
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
crazy, i know !
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real talk, though: what’s the median cost of your recent coffee purchases? I probably spend about $3.50 a cup because I like Philz too much, but typically make my own coffee at home or at work from $5 Trader Joe’s tins

You can always count on RJ to stick to the timely issues.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Does that apply to statements and positions of Joe Biden from 1973?
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Here’s a proposition: if you were on the wrong side of anti-segregation reforms, then maybe you shouldn’t run for President in 2020?.

I mean, at the end of the day, Biden has done plenty on the campaign trail (or nothing at all, tbh) to taint his current prospects. His voting history sure ain’t great, though.
 
Robert M. Pirsig said:
tentative prop : a person's attitudes and values can change between 2015 and 2020
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For values of an adult to have changed, a person had to have had weak or untoward values.

Attitudes can easily change with more information or simple life events.
 
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