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2020 Presidential Election: Biden v. Trump

I think this is mostly fine. The problem I have with it, and many on the far left in general, is that this reasoning doesn't account heavily enough for the fact that norms, attitudes, and culture changes over the years. And so can politicians. There are those who are ahead of the curve, and they deserve credit for it. For example, if you support Bernie over Biden because Bernie has championed socialist causes more consistently and for far longer - I totally get it. And to say that a person or a politician is simply a product of their generation/time does not excuse many, or all, moral and/or policy failings. But it does provide context.

We all have a tendency to label ourselves or people we support differently than people we don't. Is Biden "evil" or is he rather a decent guy who has a mixed record on important issues, some positions/votes of which have caused suffering? He's not entitled to blind support just because he's the Dem Nominee. But I do think it's fair to examine his platform, albeit with necessary skeptism, regarding what he will do for progressives moving forward. I also don't really understand why you say you wouldn't give him credit for positive things he's supported.

What he said.

In an effort to engage with this seriously instead of my normal shitposting scumbag left approach, I'll say I genuinely think Biden's brain has deteriorated quite a bit, so the right age to refer to Biden changing with the times was probably during the Obama administration, when he tried to get Obama to stick with the public option and the ACA when Obama and Rahm wanted him to abandon it altogether, or when he championed gay rights during the same period. Those are examples of positive growth, if delayed. I'll mostly skip over the parts where you're agreeing or understanding me and focus on the part where I won't give him credit for the things he did right.

I think the key plaudits Biden deserved were typically served in a bad wrapper. The Violence Against Women Act is one of his best pieces of legislation, but he hid it within the Crime Bill and forced Senators who wanted to support it to also support the bad Crime Bill.

On the crime bill, both parties wanted to look tough on crime in the 90s. It was the prevailing sentiment of public opinion at the time. He had support even from the Congressional Black Caucus leadership at the time to get it passed. My issue isn't even about it when it was passed, it's about not atoning for it in the decades he's been in a position of influence since. Crime rates have plummeted, but incarceration rates have risen, and people have stayed in prison longer for less violent crimes. None of it has addressed the flow of drugs into America, none of it has improved relationships between police and citizens in America, and he hasn't shown his personal growth in that area over a matter of decades as the rest of the country and world have shifted their cultural norms around incarceration.

On Iraq, he played a major, major role in escalation towards war. He stifled anti-war voices in his committee role appointing people to speak at hearings, and he championed the war in the press for years after it started, including on the ground in country very much cheerleading its ongoing efforts. He only became critical of tactics when things started to go very bad, and he's not at all made any mention over decades about the million dead Iraqis who died in an illegal war. He wasn't one of the neocon grifters trying to make a buck off a Halliburton contract, but how he sleeps at night knowing how many Americans, Iraqis, and other people in the region have died or had their lives utterly destroyed because of the war is beyond my capacity for understanding.

As to the content of his character, to put the bar at the level of Donald Trump is not a fair bar for judging a person. Trump embodies what's wrong with 21st century neoliberal American values, and his character is essentially on par with someone like Jeffrey Epstein, a narcissist, a sexual predator and borderline sociopath. But Biden is emblematic of the Democratic party's opposition to that, which is to say, a normative opposition rather than one really rooted in progressive policies. Biden was essentially to Anita Hill what the right was to Christine Ford. He continues to be the Democratic answer to the left about what can be accomplished in American politics, which is to say, not be a Republican rather than standing for something and for his constituents.
 
Likely both.

I mean, I don't conceive of evil in a Star Wars, Marvel Cinematic Universe, 2-dimensional, binaristic, evil/hero terms.

I explained my perspective that I understand evil in terms of a normal distribution of evil in society with true monsters inhabiting the right tail and bureaucrats just following orders inhabiting the left tail. I also noted that Biden is not even close to median evil in this formulation. I'm just not naive enough to think about the world in black/white when most of history involve moral gray areas and complicated, complex decisions that have anticipated and unanticipated successes/failures and good/evil-type outcomes.
 
If Mark Cuban announced he was running as a 3rd party candidate, today, would he have a chance? My heart says yes, but my head says no way in hell. Cubes is far from perfect and has plenty of issues, but I'd vote for him in a heartbeat over either of these clowns.
 
If Mark Cuban announced he was running as a 3rd party candidate, today, would he have a chance? My heart says yes, but my head says no way in hell. Cubes is far from perfect and has plenty of issues, but I'd vote for him in a heartbeat over either of these clowns.

No chance. Also, Mark Cuban makes Joe Biden look like a saint when it comes to sexual harassment issues.
 
We can most all agree Biden is a bad candidate with many flaws. We can also agree that our country can't afford 4 more years of Trump. So we should hold our noses and vote for Biden like many did in 2016 for Trump. Seems like a pretty simple concept.
 
I couldn't disagree with you more townie. There is no borderline about it. Full on sociopath.
 
You can already see that Biden's campaign is in "Don't Lose The Game" Mode. They are limiting his appearances and trying to can all of his public statements. The strategy is to run fullback dive plays until the clock runs out, and just let Trump continue to throw up on himself.

This is Falcons 28 v. Patriots 3 in the 3rd Quarter. Thankfully, Trump isn't Tom Brady, but everyone knows that Biden, at this stage, is fully capable of finding a way to make it close. Just don't blow it Joe!
 
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You can already see that Biden's campaign is in "Don't Lose The Game" Mode. They are limiting his appearances and trying to can all of his public statements. The strategy is to run fullback dive plays until the clock runs out, and just let Trump continue to throw up on himself.

This is Falcons 28 v. Patriots 3 in the 3rd Quarter. Thankfully, Trump isn't Tom Brady, but everyone knows that Biden, at his stage, is fully capable of finding a way to make it close. Just don't blow it Joe!

Yeah a buddy of mine who I chat with politics a lot said the other day Biden is up two touchdowns in the second quarter but there’s a lot of time left. I agree.
 
Coronavirus unexpectedly going away would be like a Pick-6 for Trump.
 
Coronavirus unexpectedly going away would be like a Pick-6 for Trump.

It's going to get worse. The summer was supposed to help somewhat, but not with everyone basically ignoring restrictions now. And 150,000 deaths aren't ever "going away." Neither are videos of him saying it would magically disappear and wasn't a big deal.
 
It's going to get worse. The summer was supposed to help somewhat, but not with everyone basically ignoring restrictions now. And 150,000 deaths aren't ever "going away." Neither are videos of him saying it would magically disappear and wasn't a big deal.

Agreed. All the protesters, counter protesters and cops not exactly practicing social distancing could also help lead to spikes in some cities. And if it ain't gone by August, I gotta think college campuses and el-hi schools could be yuge breeding grounds this Fall.
 
It would be like being up 14-0 in control and kicking a field goal to go up 17-0 and getting your kick blocked and run back by Gaines Adams
 
I fucking hate these bullshit arguments. 2 Party Politics is ass. Every 4 years I end up somehow owing my vote to motherfuckers who despise me and encourage capitalist forces to ruin my life. I'm so fucking tempted to just never vote again out of pure spite for these goddamn electoral shakedowns. Spend years pleading and debating over the bare minimum of necessities that you need from the government, and basically get laughed at by moderates, but oh boy, the minute that primary ends, every fucking liberal comes out of the woodwork with their hand out.
 
If you went to Wake and somehow find capitalist forces ruining your life something profound happened along the way.

I don't know what it is about this board that prevents members from recognizing that a bachelors of arts from an expensive private school in the 2010s isn't Wonka's Golden Ticket. Yeah Go Deacs! and all that rah rah bullshit, but lots of people have college degrees. It's not Harvard or even Duke.
 
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