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2022 Carolina Panthers Thread - Move to the 2023 thread

Strickland33 said:
if he's a transcendent quarterback, then why didn't they win more? why does he only have one playoff win?

i suppose it could be a Stafford situation where the team was so legitimately bad that it actually held him back, but the Texans never seemed Lions-caliber bad.

i'm not a football guy, so i'm genuinely asking
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Watson has started 3 complete seasons and 6 games in his rookie year, while Baker has started four mostly-complete seasons. With regard to passing statistics, Watson is better than Baker in winning percentage, completion percentage, yards per game (and total yards, despite starting 6 fewer games), TD%, INT%, yards per attempt, adjusted yards per attempt, yards per completion, QB rating, net yards per attempt, adjusted net yards per attempt, and has more 4th-quarter comebacks and game-winning drives despite the fewer games. Baker wins in sack rate, which is not surprising, given that the Browns have an excellent OL; they finished 8th in PFF's rankings last year, and were first preseason, before Conklin got hurt.

With regard to rushing, Watson ranks ahead of Baker in yards per game (by a lot), touchdowns, first downs, and yards per attempt. Baker has fewer fumbles.

In four seasons with Baker as QB, the Browns had the following records and offense/defense ranks:
2018- 20 total points/13 total yards (offense), 21 total points/ 30 total yards (defense), 7-8-1
2019- 22/22 (offense), 20/22 (defense), 6-10
2020- 14/16 (offense), 21/17 (defense), 11-5
2021- 20/18 (offense), 13/5 (defense), 8-9

In Watson's three years, the Texans finished:
2018- 11 total points/ 15 total yards (offense), 4 total points/ 12 total yards (defense), 11-5
2019- 14/13 (offense), 19/28 (defense), 10-6
2020- 18/13 (offense), 27/30 (defense), 4-12


By the time Watson takes the field, he will have been out of action for over a season and a half, so there's no telling if he'll ever be the player he was. However, based on their careers up to this point, I don't see any argument for Baker being the superior player.
 
Deshaun was an elite qb, is he still? Who knows, but he has been demonstrably better than baker over both of their playing careers.
 
PhDeac said:
Watson is 28-26 as a starter. He won 10 and 11 games with the Texans his 2nd and 3rd seasons.

The franchise blows.
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This. He and DeHop kept taking otherwise talentless teams to the playoffs - where they'd promptly lose to much more talented teams. BOB and Easterby absolutely destroyed that roster after Rick Smith had to step down due to health issues. Watson is a top 7-8 QB when playing. This is a throw away year for him and Cleveland now that the suspension was increased to 11. But they should be a serious contender next year. Whereas Baker is a 20-25 QB at best. Dude has moxey and is accurate, but he doesn't have great arm strength and isn't very mobile. That said, he's a nice upgrade over Darnold.
 
cville deac said:
This. He and DeHop kept taking otherwise talentless teams to the playoffs - where they'd promptly lose to much more talented teams. BOB and Easterby absolutely destroyed that roster after Rick Smith had to step down due to health issues. Watson is a top 7-8 QB when playing. This is a throw away year for him and Cleveland now that the suspension was increased to 11. But they should be a serious contender next year. Whereas Baker is a 20-25 QB at best. Dude has moxey and is accurate, but he doesn't have great arm strength and isn't very mobile. That said, he's a nice upgrade over Darnold.
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this is false

in 2018 the Texans went 11-5 and their offense was #19 in DVOA and defense was #5
in 2019 the Texans went 10-6 and their offense was #17 and defense was #22
Both years had a top 5 special teams

so it wasn't like Watson was dragging a bum defense to the playoffs (maybe in 2019 - but he wasn't lighting the league on fire that year either)
 
BarcaDeac said:
Yeah but how will he be after 2 seasons off?
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That is the $64K question. He looked rusty in his brief preseason action. I expect it to take him a few games to get acclimated, but I think he'll be his old self by next year.

Buckets, they had a crap OL and made that god awful trade for Tunsil and then waited many months before overpaying him. The D was heading downhill toward the end with an aging Watt and Mercilus. It was a crap roster by 2019 and has been atrocious since. Though I did like their draft this year, and the gamble on Mills may prove to be worth it. So while BOB and Easterby had no idea what they were doing, maybe Caserio has them on the right track.
 
Just got an alert that Darnold left the game on a cart? Rhule is serious about making sure PJ is on the roster.
 
I’m going to come out and say it. Brian Burns just doesn’t do it for me. I know he didn’t play even a half last night but Burns didn’t even show up in the box score. Again. I get that he gets some pressure on the QB and occasionally gets a sack, but he does absolutely nothing else. Once again he didn’t even touch anyone last night who had the ball in his hands. Not once. No tackles or even half tackles. Hes never in position to make a play. He’s of absolutely no help on runs. And he gets. Sack maybe every other game? That’s his only contribution on defense. I dunno. I just don’t believe in the hype yet with him. He’s become my pet peeve. Just imo
 
He is not LT, but Burns' impact is pretty strong. Even just last night, his presence and commanding double teams led to Derek Brown looking like the best player on the field in his one-on-ones.

The kicker injury looked serious, but he may just be a pussy kicker. Sciba has to be on the short list of replacements, but the kickoff weakness may doom him. Hekker tried to kickoff and had to squib it, so they'll need someone who can pound it through the end zone.

Tough to see how any Panther fan is not fired up by Baker. Obviously it was just preseason, but he was throwing the ball better than any Panther QB since Delhomme. McAdoo's offense is a good fit for him as well - spread everyone out in the passing game and make accurate throws to guys who can get yardage in space. Even maximizing guys like Tremble and Ricci is what has made McAdoo excel in the past, when hopefully CMC, Anderson, etc are out there it should be a fun offense.
 
Sciba had 2 touchbacks in 9 kickoffs.
 
What is the average starting field position for kick returns? Not being able to boom it in the end zone doesn’t seem as detrimental now that you get to start at the 25
 
I wonder if kickers are practicing pop up kicks that will force a fair catch between the 10-15. Punters have mastered forcing a fair catch at the 10.
 
Crossed paths with Rhule when we were both on runs yesterday. Looks to me like he’s definitely lost some weight.
 
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