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2023-24 Wake Forest Basketball Season - 21-14 (11-9) - KP#29 / NET#43

Yeah the Big 12 teams surely aren't hand wringing over their 1 point loss to a Q1 or a meh loss to a Q2, because they've got 14 Q1 opportunities once conference play hits where they'll either play their way in or out with high end chances.
 
I agree it has made the tournament better by not rewarding middle of the road power conference teams.

I do find it hard to understand at times though that Wake fans should desire to change places with a team like Alabama who will be 6-5 when we wake up in the morning with their best win versus Indiana St.
 
And that's a good point about teams at the bottom of the ACC. Here are the 12 currrent Power 6 conference teams outside the KP top 100:

105. Arizona State
107. LSU
111. Penn State
128. Georgia Tech
131. West Virginia
163. California
175. Louisville
179. Georgetown
206. Oregon Sttate
217. Depaul
228. Notre Dame
233. Vanderbilt

ACC and Pac 10: 3 teams
Big East and SEC: 2 teams
Big 10: 1 team
Big 12: 1 team
 
Haros said:
This is the case.

The ACC hasn’t been a top 3 conference since 2019.

Prior to 2019, the ACC was a top 3 conference 17 of the prior 20 years by the same metrics (namely KP, but whatever you want to use) we use today. So it’s not the metrics that have changed, it’s the quality of the ACC.

A big part of this is other major conferences getting bigger as PH noted. Another part is the SEC recently started to outbid the ACC for top tier coaches, and then started getting some of the top tier southeast talent that used to end up in the ACC.

We have been clearly behind the SEC in each of the 4 years since the season the tournament was cancelled. We were behind the SEC in just 5 of the 21 seasons that preceded that.

And then lastly, the bottom 5-6 teams in any given year have been awful. Not just not very good, but still beat the dregs of D1 (which was the historical standard for a bad ACC team), but lose at home to Citadel, Chattanooga, Arkansas St, Western Carolina, USF bad.
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I think the ACC is currently 5th and would be 2nd if not for ND and UL
 
daaberry said:
I agree it has made the tournament better by not rewarding middle of the road power conference teams.

I do find it hard to understand at times though that Wake fans should desire to change places with a team like Alabama who will be 6-5 when we wake up in the morning with their best win versus Indiana St.
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Something else to keep in mind though is the NET rankings do not matter at all until Selection Sunday. So Alabama as top 12 right now doesn't mean anything other then they've lost close games to good teams (they're 1-4 against Q1 teams and 5-0 against everybody else). So they've missed out on some Q1 win opportunities but if they're actually as good as their metrics/NET indicate, they're likely going to pick up a few Q1 wins and continue padding their stats against Q2-Q4. If they do not do so, they will drop.

One more thing to consider IMO is that the committee isn't just taking NET in a vacuum, they're also going to evaluate if you actually won games. That's why they aren't just taking the top 38 at-large teams per the NET and putting them into the tournament.
 
yeah if the deacs are as good as we think/hope they are then a lot of this is kinda moot re: making the tourney -- they'll finish top 4 or so in the ACC and they'll be in

probs affects seed though
 
BigDeacEnergy said:
I think the ACC is currently 5th and would be 2nd if not for ND and UL
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Yes 5th currently. And you're right probably 2nd if you cherry picked the two worst from just the ACC. But...if you took the two worst teams out of every conference, the ACC would get right back to.....5th.
 
Haros said:
Yes 5th currently. And you're right probably 2nd if you cherry picked the two worst from just the ACC. But...if you took the two worst teams out of every conference, the ACC would get right back to.....5th.
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Wasn't trying to cherry pick or make the ACC look better. My point was UL and ND are dragging us down a ton with how bad they are.
 
Haros said:
Yes 5th currently. And you're right probably 2nd if you cherry picked the two worst from just the ACC. But...if you took the two worst teams out of every conference, the ACC would get right back to.....5th.
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Yeah the ACC and Pac 12 are pretty similarly situated and are comfortably 5/6 right now (I'd imagine it flips back and forth a bit throughout the rest of the year). Both conferences have three teams outside the top 100 in KP, one team in the top 10 in KP (although Arizona is the best team from either conference), and 5 teams in the top 50 in KP
 
will be interesting to see how many of these Q1 B10 or 12 teams make the Final Four though. Probably will get another 2+ ACC teams in and the pundits will be like "we can't believe it !"
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
And that's a good point about teams at the bottom of the ACC. Here are the 12 currrent Power 6 conference teams outside the KP top 100:

105. Arizona State
107. LSU
111. Penn State
128. Georgia Tech
131. West Virginia
163. California
175. Louisville
179. Georgetown
206. Oregon Sttate
217. Depaul
228. Notre Dame
233. Vanderbilt

ACC and Pac 10: 3 teams
Big East and SEC: 2 teams
Big 10: 1 team
Big 12: 1 team
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Being generous to the ACC here, as FSU is currently at 97 and BC is at 92
 
BarcaDeac said:
will be interesting to see how many of these Q1 B10 or 12 teams make the Final Four though. Probably will get another 2+ ACC teams in and the pundits will be like "we can't believe it !"
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I will not talk about small sample size. I will not talk about small sample size. I will not talk about small sample size.
 
Good chance to evaluate the ACC vs B12 tonight, as UNC plays Oklahoma and Duke plays Baylor.

Although, that's the best two ACC teams vs the 5th and 6th best B12 teams, and the ACC teams are only narrowly favored
 
I HATE Duke and UNC. And it really really sucks that we need those two fuckers to win tonight. Hate hate hate it.
 
deacfan123 said:
I HATE Duke and UNC. And it really really sucks that we need those two fuckers to win tonight. Hate hate hate it.
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I mean in a vacuum two games involving teams other than Wake are never going to completely make or break things for Wake. So if you really want to hate tonight, hate away.

But yeah, in terms of the bigger picture the ACC doing well would be good.
 
deacon14 said:
Being generous to the ACC here, as FSU is currently at 97 and BC is at 92
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How is GT 30+ places below FSU and BC? I've seen GT a couple of times against Duke and PS, and they've looked pretty good. And they beat a ranked Miss St. FSU has been hot trash every time I've seen them.
 
Got me interested in conference affiliation Final Fours the last decade. Here's the count:

ACC: 8
Big 10/Big East:6
SEC/Big 12: 5
MVC/Pac 12/American/WCC: 2
CUSA/MW: 1

Teams who have made the FF by conference last decade:

ACC: UNC (3), Duke (2), Miami, UVA, Syracuse
Big 10: Michigan State (2), Michigan (2), Wisconsin (2)
Big East: Villanova (3), UConn, Syracuse, Louisville
SEC: Kentucky (2), Florida, South Carolina, Auburn
Big 12: Kansas (2), Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma
MVC: Loyola, Wichita State
WCC: Gonzaga (2)
American: UConn, Houston
Pac12: UCLA, Oregon
CUSA: Florida Atlantic
Mountain West: San Diego Statte

Champs by Conference last decade:

Big East: 4
ACC: 3
Big 12: 2
American: 1
 
cville deac said:
How is GT 30+ places below FSU and BC? I've seen GT a couple of times against Duke and PS, and they've looked pretty good. And they beat a ranked Miss St. FSU has been hot trash every time I've seen them.
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GT has a loss to UMass Lowell and a narrow 3 point win against Howard. Penn State (who isn't good) also took them to OT. GT has been weird so far, as they have some really good games (they beat Duke and Miss St). I'm sure the story will make more sense one way or the other by the end of the year for them.
 
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