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2nd half defense

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Bubble Boy

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Here are the points that we have allowed in the second half of our ACC losses:
ND 52
Duke 53
Syracuse 52
UNC 44
UVa 51
Clemson 42
FSU 49

Hard to pull out close games when you can't stop the other team. It also becomes harder to score when the other team is able to consistently set up a press or their half court defense after scoring. Does KenPom (or someone) have a stat for last 10 minute defense? We have to be one of the worst in the country.
 
What defense? Bottom line is that we don't defend well enough to beat good teams. We don't ever make adjustments, change defenses to upset offensive rhythm,or play consistently hard enough on defense. Manning doesn't demand it.
 
Bubble Boy said:
Here are the points that we have allowed in the second half of our ACC losses:
ND 52
Duke 53
Syracuse 52
UNC 44
UVa 51
Clemson 42
FSU 49

Hard to pull out close games when you can't stop the other team. It also becomes harder to score when the other team is able to consistently set up a press or their half court defense after scoring. Does KenPom (or someone) have a stat for last 10 minute defense? We have to be one of the worst in the country.
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still enough to win :rulz:
 
It's mind-boggling that he hasn't realized that we do not have the athletes to play the defense he desires. three or four games ago, he seemed to use a zone to mix it up, but certainly abandoned that option tonight.
 
Rosspeds said:
It's mind-boggling that he hasn't realized that we do not have the athletes to play the defense he desires. three or four games ago, he seemed to use a zone to mix it up, but certainly abandoned that option tonight.
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Undersized guards and a PF that is just slightly faster than a statue is not exactly the recipe for a good zone.
 
Our zone has been pitiful whenever we tried it.
 
Thought our rotations against GT and for the first half tonight were much improved from earlier in the year. We seemed to fail to adjust to the offensive changes ND made in the second half. I'd be curious to hear Wrangor's thoughts and especially on how coaching staffs typically adjust. Are assistants typically relied on to design some counter moves during the game? Any clue how our staff works together inside the game?
 
the ideal defense for notre dame would be switching every ball screen which requires multiple versatile defenders. we have the opposite of versatile defenders, half of our rotation can't stop lane penetration against their own position, much less other positions.

we'd try to help and recover, but notre dame is too good where if the help isn't immediate... boom 3, and if the help is actually there they punish anything other than perfect recovery by whipping the ball around until they find a great shot.

i think you have to roll with the defense you practice, man principles are getting pounded into their head every practice, it's tough enough to try to get a young team to adequately learn one defense. DM is a man defense coach and i agree it doesn't really fit our personnel, but some half assed zone that's rarely practiced is going to get shredded as well by an offensively proficient team.
 
bmoneydeac said:
Our zone has been pitiful whenever we tried it.
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That's not true. We had some good zone sequences in the second half against UNC. We also have not used a 3-2 this year, which can be very effective against teams using picks to free up threes.
 
You're probably right. Maybe I just remember the times where it failed us miserably. UVA being the worst.
 
Scheme is not the problem. Guys are often well positioned and the flow/rotations have improved. They just don't have a lot of defensive talent. And size kills us on the wings.
 
I think the defense actually got a bit better as we adjusted in the last 5-6 minutes...but they just kept throwing flames. For a while in mid 2nd half it was layups and wide open 3s. But down stretch Beachem hit a 3 right over someone that he probably misses a lot, Vasturia hit a semi contested NBA 3, Farrell hit a tough long two off the dribble and of course the Farrell 3 off the dribble moving left was a really a hard shot.
 
FckVwls said:
I think the defense actually got a bit better as we adjusted in the last 5-6 minutes...but they just kept throwing flames. For a while in mid 2nd half it was layups and wide open 3s. But down stretch Beachem hit a 3 right over someone that he probably misses a lot, Vasturia hit a semi contested NBA 3, Farrell hit a tough long two off the dribble and of course the Farrell 3 off the dribble moving left was a really a hard shot.
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Let's not forget that ND didn't score for the first 4 min of the second half. The put up 52 points in 16 minutes.

From the 6 min to 1 min mark ND scored on 8 of 9 possessions. Including our fouling in the last minute they scored on 11 of their last 12 possessions. I'd hate to see what our bad defense looks like down the stretch.
 
bmoneydeac said:
Thought our rotations against GT and for the first half tonight were much improved from earlier in the year. We seemed to fail to adjust to the offensive changes ND made in the second half. I'd be curious to hear Wrangor's thoughts and especially on how coaching staffs typically adjust. Are assistants typically relied on to design some counter moves during the game? Any clue how our staff works together inside the game?
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Assistants make suggestions, particularly the scout coach. But in general the staff will have a game plan to execute ready from the beginning with a few defensive options listed out in case the primary defensive plan isnt working.

In general we are just a poor defensive collection of players. Our guards are short and our big men are slow. Collins and Crawford are our only two players with the size and speed to really lock down their respective positions. But collins still is a poor defender and Crawford loses focus at times. Chill is getting there but he is undersized. Wilbekin, arians, Dino's are hilariously bad defenders and woods is just a step slow. Moore made two bad decisions while I was eating breakfast this morning at 5am because that is what he does.

ND killed us by simply shooting over the top of us or exposing our lack of mobility. It's a bad matchup for us. We played well enough to win. ND hit a ton of contested threes in the second half.

We are going to win by out scoring teams this year. Might as well settle into that. I did think that our defense was better in the second ha,f than the first half for large stretches and ND just torched us. We really missed McClinton last night. I am not he biggest McClinton fan but he would have really helped at the 4 spot or might have allowed us to go 1-3-1 with him at the top. You can't have a midget at the top of a 1-3-1 because it allows the other team to rotate he ball too easily. 1-3-1 has been the best zone defensive scheme I have see us in this year but it is really reliant on McClinton playing the top.

Frustrating loss last night but that is why it is hard to win on the road. ND had to win that game. Just a bad spot for our team.


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Wrangor said:
Assistants make suggestions, particularly the scout coach. But in general the staff will have a game plan to execute ready from the beginning with a few defensive options listed out in case the primary defensive plan isnt working.

In general we are just a poor defensive collection of players. Our guards are short and our big men are slow. Collins and Crawford are our only two players with the size and speed to really lock down their respective positions. But collins still is a poor defender and Crawford loses focus at times. Chill is getting there but he is undersized. Wilbekin, arians, Dino's are hilariously bad defenders and woods is just a step slow. Moore made two bad decisions while I was eating breakfast this morning at 5am because that is what he does.

ND killed us by simply shooting over the top of us or exposing our lack of mobility. It's a bad matchup for us. We played well enough to win. ND hit a ton of contested threes in the second half.

We are going to win by out scoring teams this year. Might as well settle into that. I did think that our defense was better in the second ha,f than the first half for large stretches and ND just torched us. We really missed McClinton last night. I am not he biggest McClinton fan but he would have really helped at the 4 spot or might have allowed us to go 1-3-1 with him at the top. You can't have a midget at the top of a 1-3-1 because it allows the other team to rotate he ball too easily. 1-3-1 has been the best zone defensive scheme I have see us in this year but it is really reliant on McClinton playing the top.

Frustrating loss last night but that is why it is hard to win on the road. ND had to win that game. Just a bad spot for our team.



Great post. One question: how do we perform when we have to win? What is our next have to win, where our opponent has no chance? State?
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Yeah. I would say NC State is pretty much a must win for us. But ND had lost 4 straight and was about to hit the road. There are levels of must win. Just sucks because once again we played well enough to win but faced a team playing their best. FSU and UNC games were similar. We played well and so did our opponent on their home floor.


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In addition to all of the above problems, our foul shooting seems to drop off a good bit last night while ND was deadly. (We have been excellent this year) Near the end those missed opportunity points were a factor.
 
The key possession was early in the second half after a sluggish start by both teams we went up 9. Crawford sagged on d leaving eurethra wide open for a 3. Craw has got to be more focused
 
last night made me so sad. we are playing well right now but our defense is just not at a high enough level to close out games.

i hope Collins returns because he will not be a center in the NBA and just is not getting any minutes at the 4. I would love to see it but he is not great from outside of 10 feet, nor does he have a handle for moving the ball around in the perimeter. He can use this experience and I would love to see him play with Moore...I am not sure how much they have played together, if any. I like Dinos but his defense is troublesome, especially against quick 4s. He is also not giving us the 3pt barrage that we hoped...they seem to be identifying it and getting on him quick.
 
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