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30 for 30 - Fantastic Lies

jhmd2000 said:
Those guys were the perfect villains. The facts were only going to get in the way.

Nice job, Dook. 88 idiots arguably cost you about $340,000.00 each. Good job. Good effort. You had the most embarrassing African-American Studies Department in the Triangle. Think about that.

Fun fact that they left out of the documentary: Dook tore down the house. It was a vacant lot last time I drove by (probably 18 months ago). You know you didn't handle something well when demolition seems like the best response. It would have made a fitting office for The Innocence Project, but no way Dook lets the joke roll back on them like that.
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I live a few blocks away from where the Dook rape house used to be and they just finished construction on a new house that fits in well with the rest of the neighborhood. The old house was a real piece of shit compared to the other houses on the block.
 
Frosty said:
I live a few blocks away from where the Dook rape house used to be and they just finished construction on a new house that fits in well with the rest of the neighborhood. The old house was a real piece of shit compared to the other houses on the block.
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The what?
 
Frosty said:
The lacrosse house.
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Not trying to be a jerk, but I thought it was worth pointing out that even when exonerated and declared demonstrably innocent by the State's highest law enforcement officer, the stigma of a false accusation weaves its way subconsciously into our memories.

There was no legitimate reason not to charge her with a criminal act. Fortunately, she learned her lesson from the State's mercy and turned her life around. Fortunately, the knee-jerk, gang accusers learned their humility lesson and were much more careful the next time a gang rape allegation was levied on an ACC campus.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Not trying to be a jerk, but I thought it was worth pointing out that even when exonerated and declared demonstrably innocent by the State's highest law enforcement officer, the stigma of a false accusation weaves its way subconsciously into our memories.

There was no legitimate reason not to charge her with a criminal act. Fortunately, she learned her lesson from the State's mercy and turned her life around. Fortunately, the knee-jerk, gang accusers learned their humility lesson and were much more careful the next time a gang rape allegation was levied on an ACC campus.
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This is a good point. The stigma of what happened ten years ago, or didn't happen for that matter, is still present in Durham. I've only lived in Durham for the past two years, but it's safe to say that it's still a very sore subject for a lot of people here. Unfortunately, the allegations made in this case fit many people's stereotypes of what Duke undergrads are like. To be clear, they are absolutely obnoxious. A lot of people on these boards like to joke about Wake undergrads acting entitled, but Duke is the absolute worst when it comes to this. Having lived in Durham for a little while now, if something like this happened again today I can see how so many people would be quick to pass judgment based on how many Duke undergrads act. This obviously doesn't excuse all of the people who busted out their torches and pitchforks right away, but it seemed like a lot of the long time Durham residents thought it was just a matter of time before something like what was alleged here happened.
 
Isn't a rush to judgment the usual these days? Was the prejudging this situation any different than Jameis Winston? Or riots about police shootings before all the facts are known?
 
oldmandeac said:
Isn't a rush to judgment the usual these days? Was the prejudging this situation any different than Jameis Winston? Or riots about police shootings before all the facts are known?
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I think part of the difference here is that the rush to judgement actually resulted in action being taken by the university. A rush to judgement is usual from the public, but the university acted swiftly to cancel the lacrosse season, force the coach to resign, and throw the players under the bus. To put Jameis Winston's case on this level, the public outcry would have had to resulted in him being kicked out of school, Jimbo forced to resign, and the football season canceled while the local legal system totally bungles the case.
 
Frosty said:
I think part of the difference here is that the rush to judgement actually resulted in action being taken by the university. A rush to judgement is usual from the public, but the university acted swiftly to cancel the lacrosse season, force the coach to resign, and throw the players under the bus. To put Jameis Winston's case on this level, the public outcry would have had to resulted in him being kicked out of school, Jimbo forced to resign, and the football season canceled while the local legal system totally bungles the case.
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The University went the other way in Jameis's case.
 
Haven't seen it yet but remember a lot about it. Their lax team had earned a bad rep as an out of control group under Pressler. Heard early on from a rival coach that no rape took place but a lot of bad behavior did. Also watched a Duke/UVA lax game with a UVA friend and a Duke friend of his who played lax for them. The Duke guy reiterated what I had heard from the rival coach, saying how embarrassing the program had become to the school and added how impressed he was with the job Danowski had done on and off the field with the program cleaning it up (they plucked him from Hofstra to replace Pressler).

The sad things were the rush to judgment of the players who were falsely charged and the subsequent sympathy for the program, which didn't deserve sympathy, all because of Mike Nifong. The only good to come out of the whole thing is Nifong was appropriately disbarred, and the program was later cleaned up by a very good and reputable new coach. Based on the evidence, the only reasonable crime the kids could have been charged with was disturbing the peace and maybe forcible detention, yet Nifong somehow built rape charges out of it.
 
cville deac said:
Haven't seen it yet but remember a lot about it. Their lax team had earned a bad rep as an out of control group under Pressler. Heard early on from a rival coach that no rape took place but a lot of bad behavior did. Also watched a Duke/UVA lax game with a UVA friend and a Duke friend of his who played lax for them. The Duke guy reiterated what I had heard from the rival coach, saying how embarrassing the program had become to the school and added how impressed he was with the job Danowski had done on and off the field with the program cleaning it up (they plucked him from Hofstra to replace Pressler).

The sad things were the rush to judgment of the players who were falsely charged and the subsequent sympathy for the program, which didn't deserve sympathy, all because of Mike Nifong. The only good to come out of the whole thing is Nifong was appropriately disbarred, and the program was later cleaned up by a very good and reputable new coach. Based on the evidence, the only reasonable crime the kids could have been charged with was disturbing the peace and maybe forcible detention, yet Nifong somehow built rape charges out of it.
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Forcible detention based on what?
 
scooter84 said:
Forcible detention based on what?
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I'm assuming he is referring to the fact that the two strippers locked themselves in the bathroom twice because they were scared of one player telling them to use a wooden stick as a sex toy.

This is an interesting case in that other than the 3 lax bros, virtually everyone involved was wrong in some regard.
 
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scooter84 said:
Forcible detention based on what?
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Good grief, Charlie Brown.

The only complaining witness---currently in jail for homicide---accused a guy who then at an ATM on camera a mile away. A criminal prosecution typically requires a defendant who was, ya know, actually there.
 
Still think it was such a crime that the prosecutor, Mike Nifong, would try that case by withholding the key evidence and making up the other evidence he needed, all while he was running for the county prosecutor and trying to look good in the eyes of the minority public and the Durham County citizens. Yet he knew the key witness had been with countless other men, none of which were the Duke lacrosse players. So while his jail term of only 1 day is extremely light, he was disbarred and has $180 million in liabilities, causing him to file bankruptcy because each of the 6 Duke lacrosse players sued him for $30 million.

Still waiting for not only Nancy Grace, but the Revvvvv Jesse Jackson & the Revvvv Al Sharpton to come back and apologize for all their foot stomping when this case broke.
 
DeacsOrDie said:
I'm assuming he is referring to the fact that the two strippers locked themselves in the bathroom twice because they were scared of one player telling them to use a wooden stick as a sex toy.

This is an interesting case in that other than the 3 lax bros, virtually everyone involved was wrong in some regard.
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Yeah. Not saying he should have charged that, but cops tend to overcharge for everything they can possibly get, and then your attorney pleads it down with the prosecutor to a more appropriate level. I was just trying to list some of the charges that could have been made with a straight face where the judge at the prelim wouldn't have given the prosecutor that raised eyebrow looking over your reading glasses look. The point is that a rape charge was way outside that reasonable range of charges. And as you said, there was a lot of bad stuff going down that night and on a regular basis at these lax parties. And my memory is fuzzy now, but I think 1 of the players had also been prosecuted for beating up a homeless dude, and some of those emails that were released about committing acts of violence and sexual violence were beyond creepy. Those 3 guys in no way deserved the charges they got, but this wasn't a group of upstanding young men.
 
TheReff said:
Still think it was such a crime that the prosecutor, Mike Nifong, would try that case by withholding the key evidence and making up the other evidence he needed, all while he was running for the county prosecutor and trying to look good in the eyes of the minority public and the Durham County citizens. Yet he knew the key witness had been with countless other men, none of which were the Duke lacrosse players. So while his jail term of only 1 day is extremely light, he was disbarred and has $180 million in liabilities, causing him to file bankruptcy because each of the 6 Duke lacrosse players sued him for $30 million.

Still waiting for not only Nancy Grace, but the Revvvvv Jesse Jackson & the Revvvv Al Sharpton to come back and apologize for all their foot stomping when this case broke.
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FWIW, willful or intentional wrongful behavior can be excepted from a bankruptcy discharge. Nifong's actions easily met those qualifications for denial of discharge, and I'd hope that those players hired bankruptcy attorneys to litigate that issue in his bankruptcy.
 
cville deac said:
Haven't seen it yet but remember a lot about it. Their lax team had earned a bad rep as an out of control group under Pressler. Heard early on from a rival coach that no rape took place but a lot of bad behavior did. Also watched a Duke/UVA lax game with a UVA friend and a Duke friend of his who played lax for them. The Duke guy reiterated what I had heard from the rival coach, saying how embarrassing the program had become to the school and added how impressed he was with the job Danowski had done on and off the field with the program cleaning it up (they plucked him from Hofstra to replace Pressler).

The sad things were the rush to judgment of the players who were falsely charged and the subsequent sympathy for the program, which didn't deserve sympathy, all because of Mike Nifong. The only good to come out of the whole thing is Nifong was appropriately disbarred, and the program was later cleaned up by a very good and reputable new coach. Based on the evidence, the only reasonable crime the kids could have been charged with was disturbing the peace and maybe forcible detention, yet Nifong somehow built rape charges out of it.
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Oh yea, and we all know what a bunch of choir boys those UVa lax boys are, just ask all the friends of Yeardley Love. They have always been some of the biggest partiers around Charlottesville.

The recruiting pot of candidates that would go to UVa, Duke, UNC or Johns Hopkins are all from the same private schools in the NY area, Mass, Conn, Raleigh/Durham, Maryland Eastern Shore & all over the state of MD for that matter, and all over New England, St Anne's-Belfield in Charlottesville, all the private schools in Northern VA & Richmond [like Collegiate]. Preppy, good students from high income families and they know how to party.
 
Buttermaker said:
I watched it with my sons who play HS lacrosse in NC and thought it was very good. Their coach is a county DA (not Durham) and former Duke lacrosse player.
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If this is the same guy I'm thinking of, he came and talked to each and every one of the men's athletic teams at Wake individually while the scandal was ongoing. Wake AD doesn't play around with its image.

cville deac said:
Haven't seen it yet but remember a lot about it. Their lax team had earned a bad rep as an out of control group under Pressler. Heard early on from a rival coach that no rape took place but a lot of bad behavior did. Also watched a Duke/UVA lax game with a UVA friend and a Duke friend of his who played lax for them. The Duke guy reiterated what I had heard from the rival coach, saying how embarrassing the program had become to the school and added how impressed he was with the job Danowski had done on and off the field with the program cleaning it up (they plucked him from Hofstra to replace Pressler).
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Yes, the rush to judge from the University wasn't just responding to the public outcry, it was a response to all of the other actual terrible shit that was going on in the program. Administrators probably just figured that the accusations were probably true. I can't imagine how many other things they'd covered up under Pressler.
 
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