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3D Printed Guns?

dmcheatw

dmcheatw

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I suppose this could go under the existing gun debate thread, but this technology has the potential to be so revolutionary if true that it's maybe worth a separate discussion.

The defense contractor below is working on printing the lower receiver and 30 round clips for the M16/AR-15. The 30 round clip/magazine that anyone can print out open source style is especially disturbing. Looking at the video, you may think this is a long way off, and maybe it is, but if you look at 22:15 and later of the first video you can get the update on where he's at just six months later....firing hundreds of rounds with it.

Guy is a nut no matter how technically smart or well spoken, but what he is doing does raise some very troubling and inevitable issues. From the comments on the second video one guys says:

The gun allows the user to remove the barrel load a round in the breach end before reinstalling it back on the frame and locking the barrel in place. These guns are designed to fire one shot and one shot only like for hikers in bear country. The gun will be like the paper box deposable cameras of the 90's. Cheap to manufacture and very affordable to buy when that one shot matters you'll have it likely for less then $20.00. 3D printing is new the future is promising for many low cost products.
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and then another guys responds:

Currently 3D printing is not suitable for cheap mass production. It's intended for prototyping and limited runs. The reason is that it takes too long to print anything. 3D printing this gun takes far too much time for it to be practical/cost effective for production purposes. The only way this gun will cost $20 is for it to be mass produced using traditional plastic injection moulding technology.

3D printing is so hyped these days that people simply don't grasp the reality of the technology.
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Single shot that can already be built (no commentary just showing the steps):

 
You're going to need more than one shot if you run across a bear in the back country....
 
RacerDeac said:
What's so scary about this?
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did you look at the documentary? how is that not unsettling? i get that i can already get a 30rnd magazine for whatever brand name rifle i want online, or trade for one at the fairgounds every saturday, but to just print one?

eventually everyone will have a 3d printer just like everyone has a 2d one, i do not like the idea of a 10 year old printing up a fully functioning gun to play with.
 
dmcheatw said:
did you look at the documentary? how is that not unsettling? i get that i can already get a 30rnd magazine for whatever brand name rifle i want online, or trade for one at the fairgounds every saturday, but to just print one?

eventually everyone will have a 3d printer just like everyone has a 2d one, i do not like the idea of a 10 year old printing up a fully functioning gun to play with.
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I think he was being sarcastic.
 
dmcheatw said:
did you look at the documentary? how is that not unsettling? i get that i can already get a 30rnd magazine for whatever brand name rifle i want online, or trade for one at the fairgounds every saturday, but to just print one?

eventually everyone will have a 3d printer just like everyone has a 2d one, i do not like the idea of a 10 year old printing up a fully functioning gun to play with.
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Why would everyone have a 3d printer? Does everyone have a CNC machine?
 
because you can download the CADs for anything you want and then print it out. This means when i need a new trashcan, i just make it. new end table? i could just make it, and exactly to spec too. and that's just right now...eventually they could print lightbulbs and computer chips too. when they become cost effective and can print from many different types of material simultaneously, why wouldn't i buy a 3d printer?
 
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elkman will help you print out an expanded magazine and a kit to make the gun fully automatic.
 
Liquid Karma said:
I think he was being sarcastic.
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I actually wasn't. I really don't see what's "scary" about this technology. The magazines are easy to come by right now. The idea that 3D printers are going to be the norm in every home is a guess, at best. And, even if they are, it won't matter because there are literally millions and millions of 30-round magazines out there right now. And they will always be available for mail order from China, even when banned. Of all of the gun deaths every year, how many are committed by people with 30 round magazines and AR-15's? The answer is almost none. Far more deaths occur by fist than by AR-15. It's simply not scary to me in any way.

dmcheatw said:
eventually everyone will have a 3d printer just like everyone has a 2d one, i do not like the idea of a 10 year old printing up a fully functioning gun to play with.
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I don't want my son to buy a gun, buy drugs, etc, etc. I don't think a 3D printer is the issue. The issue would be that you let your 10 year old have unmonitored access to a computer and 3D printer. Lock that that shit up and don't give him access to print from his account without a password that you must supply. Never mind that you can't "print" a bullet for a gun anyway.

I get that it seems scary. It's a new technology and we can imagine all sorts of ways that it will be dangerous. But, at least as it is applied to guns, it really just doesn't change much from a danger standpoint. I just don't imagine many scenarios where a guy sits around and thinks, "I want to shoot up a school but I don't have a 3D printer and I don't want to order any magazines legally (or illegally), so I guess I'm out of luck."
 
RacerDeac said:
I actually wasn't. I really don't see what's "scary" about this technology. The magazines are easy to come by right now. The idea that 3D printers are going to be the norm in every home is a guess, at best. And, even if they are, it won't matter because there are literally millions and millions of 30-round magazines out there right now. And they will always be available for mail order from China, even when banned. Of all of the gun deaths every year, how many are committed by people with 30 round magazines and AR-15's? The answer is almost none. Far more deaths occur by fist than by AR-15. It's simply not scary to me in any way.



I don't want my son to buy a gun, buy drugs, etc, etc. I don't think a 3D printer is the issue. The issue would be that you let your 10 year old have unmonitored access to a computer and 3D printer. Lock that that shit up and don't give him access to print from his account without a password that you must supply. Never mind that you can't "print" a bullet for a gun anyway.


I get that it seems scary. It's a new technology and we can imagine all sorts of ways that it will be dangerous. But, at least as it is applied to guns, it really just doesn't change much from a danger standpoint. I just don't imagine many scenarios where a guy sits around and thinks, "I want to shoot up a school but I don't have a 3D printer and I don't want to order any magazines legally (or illegally), so I guess I'm out of luck."
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well, there's a lot to touch on in this post. trying to go in order:

1) so if the mags are easy to get now what's the logic in making them more available?

2) that 3d printers will become as common as 2d printers is admittedly a guess, but it's a pretty safe assumption. the question is more about how long, not if, because if 3d printer tech comes to full fruition you'd be able to
print almost anything from ur house at fractions of the cost of traditional manufacturing. the advantages of this speak for itself.

3) Far more people die in fists fights than by AR-15s, but that's also missing the point. hands are a lot more versatile than guns, and it would be rather easy to regulate guns if the gun lobby wasn't in the way. 3d printing
technology could make regulation much more difficult.

4) you can already print bullets for guns actually, but apparently right now they suck too.

5) no 3d printers do not change much from a danger standpoint, strictly speaking, but they do have the potential to radically change availability, of which the danger to society is partially a function of.

i will say it's interesting that two people can look at one thing and have such different initial impressions of it. right now 3d printers are not a problem, but my questions are more about how long rather than if. basically in a worst case scenario for me the only thing stopping anyone from making a gun that owns one of these printers would be access to raw materials.

eta: it's sci-fi that the movies above show may be an imminent reality. he fires 600 rounds before his hybrid weapon breaks!
 
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dmcheatw said:
well, there's a lot to touch on in this post. trying to go in order:

1) so if the mags are easy to get now what's the logic in making them more available?

2) that 3d printers will become as common as 2d printers is admittedly a guess, but it's a pretty safe assumption. the question is more about how long, not if, because if 3d printer tech comes to full fruition you'd be able to
print almost anything from ur house at fractions of the cost of traditional manufacturing. the advantages of this speak for itself.

3) Far more people die in fists fights than by AR-15s, but that's also missing the point. hands are a lot more versatile than guns, and it would be rather easy to regulate guns if the gun lobby wasn't in the way. 3d printing
technology could make regulation much more difficult.

4) you can already print bullets for guns actually, but apparently right now they suck too.

5) no 3d printers do not change much from a danger standpoint, strictly speaking, but they do have the potential to radically change availability, of which the danger to society is partially a function of.

i will say it's interesting that two people can look at one thing and have such different initial impressions of it. right now 3d printers are not a problem, but my questions are more about how long rather than if. basically in a worst case scenario for me the only thing stopping anyone from making a gun that owns one of these printers would be access to raw materials.

eta: it's sci-fi that the movies above show may be an imminent reality. he fires 600 rounds before his hybrid weapon breaks!
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Can you actually print a round of ammunition or can you only print the "bullet" or projectile portion? I kind of wonder how one would go about printing a live round of ammunition without already having gun powder/ primers on hand. I certainly would not shoot a round of ammunition with a case made out of the material these folks are printing AR 15 receivers out of.
 
i know nothing about 3d printers but i would think just the actual projectile, whatever that's made of. i agree i can't see how you can print gunpowder into the cartridge. at the end of the day some assembly is gonna be required to make anything complex.
 
richis711 said:
Can you actually print a round of ammunition or can you only print the "bullet" or projectile portion? I kind of wonder how one would go about printing a live round of ammunition without already having gun powder/ primers on hand. I certainly would not shoot a round of ammunition with a case made out of the material these folks are printing AR 15 receivers out of.
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The exterior casing structure yes, the guts no, but bullets are one of the initially hollow things that are relatively easy to build/print.

In other words, you can build/print the bowl but not the soup.
 
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