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A Transgendered Navy Seal?

It doesn't matter what tone the questions were phrased in. I could be as delicate as a flower and people would still get pissed off and accuse me of all sorts of things. I was intentionally indelicate in order to get a reaction thinking that if people were legitimately ticked, they may be more inclined to actually answer. BBD was as predictable as RJ, but I specifically named him so that's understandable. I'm going to give Vad, the resident Eurosexual and fashion king, pos rep for attempting to address my questions in a civilized manner. Qwerty also because his posts were epic. Especially the part about ramming the throbbing agenda down the throat.

That said, I don't understand the whole tranny thing and I do think it is fucked up. Toogs made exactly the point that needed to be made-- a guy cuts off his arm and we think he's crazy, but a guy cuts off his dick and everything is A-OK. That IS bizarre, and there seems to be no other reason that we find it to be acceptable except that trannies are lumped into the whole LGBT community.

The one question that still hasn't been answered is this. Is there a subset within the gay community who considers transsexuals to be beneath them and not something that should be part of the gay and lesbian cause because they too view cutting off the dick as fucked up?
 
EatLeadCommie said:
It doesn't matter what tone the questions were phrased in. I could be as delicate as a flower and people would still get pissed off and accuse me of all sorts of things. I was intentionally indelicate in order to get a reaction thinking that if people were legitimately ticked, they may be more inclined to actually answer. BBD was as predictable as RJ, but I specifically named him so that's understandable. I'm going to give Vad, the resident Eurosexual and fashion king, pos rep for attempting to address my questions in a civilized manner. Qwerty also because his posts were epic. Especially the part about ramming the throbbing agenda down the throat.

That said, I don't understand the whole tranny thing and I do think it is fucked up. Toogs made exactly the point that needed to be made-- a guy cuts off his arm and we think he's crazy, but a guy cuts off his dick and everything is A-OK. That IS bizarre, and there seems to be no other reason that we find it to be acceptable except that trannies are lumped into the whole LGBT community.

The one question that still hasn't been answered is this. Is there a subset within the gay community who considers transsexuals to be beneath them and not something that should be part of the gay and lesbian cause because they too view cutting off the dick as fucked up?
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It does. What rational person wants to get involved in a conversation with someone who starts it by saying "you're fucking crazy and clearly mentally imbalanced... explain it to me." It doesn't exactly scream 'please, teach me so I can be better informed.'
It's obvious that you don't understand 'the whole tranny thing' but that doesn't mean it's 'fucked up.' I think most psychologists would agree that cutting off an arm vs. having an operation to align your body with your mind (which has felt this way your whole life) are two very, very different things.
As to your last bit, you'll need a gay person to answer that one for you.. but my guess would be no, no more so than there are ignorant straight people. I'd be willing to go out on a limb that most are empathetic/sympathetic to their gender identity/sexual orientation struggles and are just happy for them when they can truly be themselves.
 
WakeandBake said:
just don't think about trannies so much and it won't bother you.
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I don't. Truth be told, these questions started forming last week when I saw the ugliest tranny walking around in a Panera Bread in rural Maryland. I thought, wow, it takes some balls (*rim shot*) to do that out here in the boonies, but god almighty, please spare us the sight of your manboobs about to fly out of your moomoo. I was attending my nephew's graduation at the time, so I couldn't really jump online and post a "Why are trannies so fucked up?" thread, but the seed had been planted and then I saw this thread after being subjected to the tranny SEAL on TV so...
 
lbE08 said:
It's obvious that you don't understand 'the whole tranny thing' but that doesn't mean it's 'fucked up.' I think most psychologists would agree that cutting off an arm vs. having an operation to align your body with your mind (which has felt this way your whole life) are two very, very different things.
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There are people who cut off their arm for exactly the same reason people cut off their dicks. They don't feel like it is them and they cut off their arm and are suddenly happy. That is a mental disorder. How is cutting off one's dick not a mental disorder? Why do we "seek answers" for one malady but not the other? They're both fucked up conditions of the mind, and we shouldn't poo-poo one and embrace the other simply because it falls under the gay and lesbian umbrella of untouchability and is insensitive. Call it for what it is-- fucked up.
 
Ah the old "I wanted to start a good, civil conversation on a topic so I threw out some crazy, one-sided hate" routine. Oldest trick in the book.

It's not a great analogy by Toogs, either, re: cutting your arm off vs castration/sex change. It's facile and reductive. And it's that side of the discussion that continues to make subjects like these taboo and constrict the discourse. It's not in the name of some vague, abstract propriety or PC or whatever that triggers an auto-response from people like BBD. It's just simple humanity. Your fear or disgust of difference/the other is your prerogative in exactly the same light.
 
lbE08 said:
It does. What rational person wants to get involved in a conversation with someone who starts it by saying "you're fucking crazy and clearly mentally imbalanced... explain it to me." It doesn't exactly scream 'please, teach me so I can be better informed.'
It's obvious that you don't understand 'the whole tranny thing' but that doesn't mean it's 'fucked up.' I think most psychologists would agree that cutting off an arm vs. having an operation to align your body with your mind (which has felt this way your whole life) are two very, very different things.
As to your last bit, you'll need a gay person to answer that one for you.. but my guess would be no, no more so than there are ignorant straight people. I'd be willing to go out on a limb that most are empathetic/sympathetic to their gender identity/sexual orientation struggles and are just happy for them when they can truly be themselves.
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The people who want the amputation feel like their arm does not belong to them. That's just as much aligning body with mind as transsexual surgery
 
TownieDeac said:
Ah the old "I wanted to start a good, civil conversation on a topic so I threw out some crazy, one-sided hate" routine. Oldest trick in the book.

It's not a great analogy by Toogs, either, re: cutting your arm off vs castration/sex change. It's facile and reductive. And it's that side of the discussion that continues to make subjects like these taboo and constrict the discourse. It's not in the name of some vague, abstract propriety or PC or whatever that triggers an auto-response from people like BBD. It's just simple humanity. Your fear or disgust of difference/the other is your prerogative in exactly the same light.
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Are you not familiar with the voluntary amputee set? They exist, and society labels them crazy. Why is their desire more crazy than a pre-op transexual's? BTW I am fine with both groups.
 
Spare me the "hate speech" thing, dude. Not every disagreement requires one side to take the side of hate. If we were talking about drug addicts and one side said treat them and the other side said to lock them up, the side that says to lock them up isn't espousing hate speech. I'm also differentiating trannies from gays. I have sympathy for both predicaments, but kind of draw the line when it comes to cutting off your dick. I happen to find that to be more than just a wee bit zany.
 
ELC is just mad that he's boned a dude
 
Toogs said:
Are you not familiar with the voluntary amputee set? They exist, and society labels them crazy. Why is their desire more crazy than a pre-op transexual's? BTW I am fine with both groups.
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I was able to find some scholarly literature to support parallels between the two - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16799838

In that regard, I would say they aren't completely apples and oranges clinically speaking. I guess you have to just decide for yourself whether you want to push people suffering these conditions aside as freaks, or if you want to treat them like human beings. Basically back to the same point I made before, that most people are either able to show apathy or empathy, and the rest fall somewhere between mocking and hatred/disgust.

In the specific case of the OP, I don't really care your sexual preference or your human condition if you're performing the duties of a SEAL. Takes a badass human being, no two ways around it.
 
buckets said:
ELC is just mad that he's boned a dude
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He_Mad.jpg
 
Toogs said:
Are you not familiar with the voluntary amputee set? They exist, and society labels them crazy. Why is their desire more crazy than a pre-op transexual's? BTW I am fine with both groups.
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I just read a few articles and as far as BIID is concerned, up until right now I didn't realize the neurological/physiological aspect of it - I had only been made aware of it as a fetish (which, I do largely believe fetishes are psychological, not physiological). One of the articles I just read specifically addressed this and explained how doctors are getting away from this side of the explanation and moving more towards the body-imaging aspect of it by looking at touch-test results on a brain scan and noting which parts of the brain are reacting. For people with both phantom limbs or who would elect to have voluntary amputation, it's different than people who don't have those issues. Pretty fascinating.

Our brains and physical bodies are incredibly complex, I'm not going to pretend that there's a best way or only way that should work for everyone. I'm certainly not going to go around saying everything that's not "normal" is "fucked up".
 
lbE08 said:
I just read a few articles and as far as BIID is concerned, up until right now I didn't realize the neurological/physiological aspect of it - I had only been made aware of it as a fetish (which, I do largely believe fetishes are psychological, not physiological). One of the articles I just read specifically addressed this and explained how doctors are getting away from this side of the explanation and moving more towards the body-imaging aspect of it by looking at touch-test results on a brain scan and noting which parts of the brain are reacting. For people with both phantom limbs or who would elect to have voluntary amputation, it's different than people who don't have those issues. Pretty fascinating.

Our brains and physical bodies are incredibly complex, I'm not going to pretend that there's a best way or only way that should work for everyone. I'm certainly not going to go around saying everything that's not "normal" is "fucked up".
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We can all agree that this is an appropriate response toward gingers though, right?
 
lbE08 said:
I just read a few articles and as far as BIID is concerned, up until right now I didn't realize the neurological/physiological aspect of it - I had only been made aware of it as a fetish (which, I do largely believe fetishes are psychological, not physiological). One of the articles I just read specifically addressed this and explained how doctors are getting away from this side of the explanation and moving more towards the body-imaging aspect of it by looking at touch-test results on a brain scan and noting which parts of the brain are reacting. For people with both phantom limbs or who would elect to have voluntary amputation, it's different than people who don't have those issues. Pretty fascinating.

Our brains and physical bodies are incredibly complex, I'm not going to pretend that there's a best way or only way that should work for everyone. I'm certainly not going to go around saying everything that's not "normal" is "fucked up".
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HBO showed a doc a few years ago about the amputee people. It was compelling viewing but I have no idea what it was called.

You are an open minded person. My point and curiosity is about how society perceives these two groups, which are somewhat doing (or want to do) the same thing.
 
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