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About that "World's Best Healthcare System" the U.S. is supposed to have...

I can see where this is coming from, its a straight business philosophy trying to be worked into academic science. Pharmaceutical companies do this all the time, but then its there own money and their own review process. That idea is ripe for corruption and then some.
 
Results oriented pay. Not sure why this is a bad idea. Worse case scenario government waste more taxpayer money (business as usual). Best case scenario we get some positive results for the money.
 
Results oriented pay. Not sure why this is a bad idea. Worse case scenario government waste more taxpayer money (business as usual). Best case scenario we get some positive results for the money.
It is a bad idea because grants are already results oriented pay. You do not get grants without an impressive amount of preliminary data and prior publications on the subject. The notion that scientists get grants for ideas with little or no proven validity is false. The system already rewards good results, this just rewards scientists connected to the politicians.

And the idea this will spur innovation is a bit naive. Does anybody honestly think scientists are sitting on groundbreaking ideas simply because there isn't a prize for their discovery? We sit on ideas because we don't have funding to pursue them, which won't be changed in any way by a prize given AFTER the discovery. Besides, a "prize" structure already exists in the form of patents/intellectual property, grants, publications, scientific awards, etc. Tenure, grants, papers, and multiple licensed/developing drugs are my personal prize for my discoveries.

What science needs to spur development of innovative drugs/therapies is more money for grants period, not new types of awards like this attached to increased funding. It may work for other fields of research but biomedical discoveries cost in the $100k-$200k range for reagents and staff (at minimum not including clinical trials. Most big discoveries cost more to research) so it isn't as though somebody is just sitting with a great idea they can bring forward with minimal funding to win some prize.

This seems like just another example of politicians trying to further politicize science. Hence, a bad idea IMO.

Just to give an example. My biggest discovery took 3 years of work by a postdoc and a technician. That alone is almost $300k in salary/benefits (not including a dime of my salary). Factor in reagents, equipment, mice, core facility usage, etc and it goes over $500k. I'd much rather research money be used to spur innovative research on the front end rather than reward people for discoveries we, as taxpayers, have already paid for. Nothing like getting paid twice by the government for your work.
 
That bill is horrible. Research is already drying up because of how hard it is to obtain funding as universities have stopped augmenting funding themselves, leaving research faculty to try and obtain 100% of their funding via grants. And now that more funding is finally going to be available, the suggestion is to make it even harder to obtain that funding?
 
LOL @ wasting taxpayer money. Strictly talking about ROI, public funded research is as "safe" an investment as there is. Every dollar spent on biomedical research returns that money back ten fold, or often more. Excepting NASA, you can extrapolate that out to most other research sectors that the public has funded.

DARPA has given us the internet, GPS, an innumerable list into the hundreds of billions of dollars of return on its <$3 BN total taxpayer cost.
The Human Genome Project cost $3.6 BN total, genetic technologies in biotech now worth upwards of $750 BN.
NSF operating budget is $7BN/year now. From it, we got Google. And NSF grants have been instrumental in the development of new technologies and companies in nearly every major industry, including advanced electronics, computing, digital communications, environmental resource management, lasers, advanced manufacturing, clean energy, nanotechnology, biotechnology, and higher education.
The Department of Energy operates on $5 BN/year. From it, we've gotten The optical digital recording technology behind all music, video, and data storage; fluorescent lights; communications and observation satellites; advanced batteries now used in electric cars; modern water-purification techniques that make drinking water safe for millions; supercomputers used by government, industry, and consumers every day; more resilient passenger jets; better cancer therapies.

Nearly every single dollar goes towards directly creating jobs or buying equipment, and administrative overhead costs go down by the decade instead of up.

We already get positive results for the money we spend.

But when you cut funding or make it results-driven, you make scientists only publish the safest, least innovative work. It entirely halts the scientific process.

THIS.THIS.THIS.10000000000000000000000000000000FUCKINGTIMESTHIS.
 
That bill is horrible. Research is already drying up because of how hard it is to obtain funding as universities have stopped augmenting funding themselves, leaving research faculty to try and obtain 100% of their funding via grants. And now that more funding is finally going to be available, the suggestion is to make it even harder to obtain that funding?

Thankfully the "prize competition" provision is only supposed to apply to $80 million per year of the proposed $1.75 billion per year increase in NIH funding. The rest is still supposed to go mainly to funding young investigators as they start their careers. In the end, if this has to be included in the bill to get it to pass then I'm OK with it because it is a big win for biomedical research. It obviously doesn't need to be in the bill, however, so I hope it gets removed.
 
That bill is simply another way to siphon taxpayer money to private business. Perhaps the dumbest part is giving prize money to companies who will already make money off their innovations anyway.
 
In news that no one cares about, I'm actively trying to leave science ASAP. I no longer view it as a viable career path, regardless of my current success/situation.
 
In news that no one cares about, I'm actively trying to leave science ASAP. I no longer view it as a viable career path, regardless of my current success/situation.

The Republicans win.

But seriously, what's going on? Much of my research is on people leaving STEM education and career pathways.
 
The Republicans win.

But seriously, what's going on? Much of my research is on people leaving STEM education and career pathways.

Dang, I'd be interested in reading that when you publish it.
 
Dang, I'd be interested in reading that when you publish it.

Just sent something to the last email address I have for you. If you have a new one, PM it to me.
 
The system is definitely broken if you want to go into an academic position. Funding is tight, people never retire, competition for a job is like 200-1, etc... There are plenty of things to do as a scientist or someone that's trained as a scientist though. Also what you are doing your research on as far as funding and what your future prospects for a job are matters tremendously.
 

From that link:

But how is it that a company can charge $750 for a medication when the patent expired decades ago?

I asked Alfred Engelberg, a patent attorney for whom the Engelberg Center on Innovation and Law Policy at NYU is named. He worked for decades challenging patents on behalf of generic-medication manufacturers. Engelberg does believe the Daraprim price increase is the direct result of the supply and demand problem, in that over the last decade the number of companies producing any given medication has fallen significantly, due to mergers and business failures. It takes two to three years and costs around $1 million to gain approval for a generic drug, assuming you can find a source of manufacture for the active ingredient, he explained. Many drugs are down to three or fewer manufacturers, creating oligopolies. When one or two of those competitors has a raw material interruption, an FDA-compliance problem, or for any other reason decides to stop producing the drug, a monopoly results. The company can charge anything it wants.

“A new breed of greedy CEOs is taking advantage of the rules of capitalism to make a killing,” Engelberg said. He explains that it's simply not worth the investment for most companies to take up a low-volume drug that sells at a low price. Daraprim was a low-volume drug selling at a low price. If another company wants to start selling generic pyrimethamine, it could drive the price of brand-name Daraprim back down. But that generic company wouldn’t make much money, so why bother?


That's a pretty good explanation, but I think the real problem is FDA bureaucracy, not "taking advantage of the rules of capitalism." Why do you have jump through hoops to make a drug that already exists? Why not just start manufacturing and put in for a rubber stamp from the FDA while that is going on? Typical government bullshit and oversight in a case where little to none is needed. A company should be able to say, "Here, we are making this pill from this patent with these ingredients and here's a sample to go check out." Done.
 
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A company should be able to say, "Here, we are making this pill from this patent with these ingredients and here's a sample to go check out." Done.

That's pretty much what happens now. $1m is cheap as hell to verify a new (often complex) manufacturing process is actually reliably safe.
 
From that link:

But how is it that a company can charge $750 for a medication when the patent expired decades ago?

I asked Alfred Engelberg, a patent attorney for whom the Engelberg Center on Innovation and Law Policy at NYU is named. He worked for decades challenging patents on behalf of generic-medication manufacturers. Engelberg does believe the Daraprim price increase is the direct result of the supply and demand problem, in that over the last decade the number of companies producing any given medication has fallen significantly, due to mergers and business failures. It takes two to three years and costs around $1 million to gain approval for a generic drug, assuming you can find a source of manufacture for the active ingredient, he explained. Many drugs are down to three or fewer manufacturers, creating oligopolies. When one or two of those competitors has a raw material interruption, an FDA-compliance problem, or for any other reason decides to stop producing the drug, a monopoly results. The company can charge anything it wants.

“A new breed of greedy CEOs is taking advantage of the rules of capitalism to make a killing,” Engelberg said. He explains that it's simply not worth the investment for most companies to take up a low-volume drug that sells at a low price. Daraprim was a low-volume drug selling at a low price. If another company wants to start selling generic pyrimethamine, it could drive the price of brand-name Daraprim back down. But that generic company wouldn’t make much money, so why bother?


That's a pretty good explanation, but I think the real problem is FDA bureaucracy, not "taking advantage of the rules of capitalism." Why do you have jump through hoops to make a drug that already exists? Why not just start manufacturing and put in for a rubber stamp from the FDA while that is going on? Typical government bullshit and oversight in a case where little to none is needed. A company should be able to say, "Here, we are making this pill from this patent with these ingredients and here's a sample to go check out." Done.

You don't think it is worthwhile to make sure that the drugs people take are, you know, actually those drugs and won't kill them?
 
That's a pretty good explanation, but I think the real problem is FDA bureaucracy, not "taking advantage of the rules of capitalism." Why do you have jump through hoops to make a drug that already exists? Why not just start manufacturing and put in for a rubber stamp from the FDA while that is going on? Typical government bullshit and oversight in a case where little to none is needed. A company should be able to say, "Here, we are making this pill from this patent with these ingredients and here's a sample to go check out." Done.

LOL. "That's a pretty good explanation, but instead of taking the word of this expert in the field I'll make up another reason that lines up with my preconceived political prejudices". Epic. Well done.
 
LOL. "That's a pretty good explanation, but instead of taking the word of this expert in the field I'll make up another reason that lines up with my preconceived political prejudices". Epic. Well done.

That's a pretty good critique, but instead of thinking about what ELC said, you just assumed he wasn't making a reasonable statement and dismissed him....well done.

I mean the "expert" basically says it's too expensive and too much of a PITA to go through the FDA approval process and that's why no one has done it...ELC just expounded on that with a reasonable though...i.e. capitalism (re: market economics) aren't really the problem as much as externalities (seemingly excessive FDA red tape) are protecting an incumbent supplier of the drug from competition that might otherwise exist and disrupting market forces
 
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