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Any transfers?

faxmachineanthem said:
If these guys have done a good job at progressing towards their Wake degree it's unethical IMO to send them off to get their diploma at some crap school.
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Why does it have to be a crap school?
 
Wrangor said:
Sorry, but you didn't recruit him to get a degree (I know that is harsh, but that is the reality). They aren't funneling $300k worth services towards Rountree so he can be a practice player. If you can't compete, then you need to go to a place where you can compete. Scholarships are one year renewable contracts. There is certainly a way to go about this without being a jerk, but in the end, if your presence is more liability than benefit, then it is the coaches responsibility to help the player move to a better situation.

If the coach cannot find a suitable place for the player, then you don't dump the guy on the street, but there are plenty of schools for Madison, Tree, and Washington that would be GREAT fits. I kind of what Washington to stick just to see if Manning can pull off a miracle, but Jones and Tree have no shot of being meaningful ACC players (Washington is a lottery ticket). There is really no sense in those guys continuing to play for Wake. Just my .02. It is kind of harsh, but it just seems to be reality. College basketball is a grownup game. Sooner or later players realize that. [Redacted] coddled the players for 4 years. It is time for Danny Manning to give them all a wake up call. Sometimes the best thing you can do to improve production within a system is to 'encourage' a few players to move on. The other players get the message real quick.
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Actually, we do recruit these players with the promise of a degree. Its not a guarantee, and it requires work and commitment on the player's part, but that's what the coach and the university tells the parents.

None of the kids on our roster right now have (or had coming out of HS) legit NBA dreams. So you have to think that the WF degree was a big part of them coming here (it cant really be argued it was to win). If you think Manning can tell 2-3 kids to beat it, and then go sit in a living room with parents of kids who also probably arent future NBAers, then you are still living in the BZZ dreamworld where the sky is green and losses dont get you fired.
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
Actually, we do recruit these players with the promise of a degree. Its not a guarantee, and it requires work and commitment on the player's part, but that's what the coach and the university tells the parents.

None of the kids on our roster right now have (or had coming out of HS) legit NBA dreams. So you have to think that the WF degree was a big part of them coming here (it cant really be argued it was to win). If you think Manning can tell 2-3 kids to beat it, and then go sit in a living room with parents of kids who also probably arent future NBAers, then you are still living in the BZZ dreamworld where the sky is green and losses dont get you fired.
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I think you underrate how high school kids vastly overrate their own abilities.
 
Maybe, but what Im certainly not underrating is the stink a program/coach retains when word gets out that they are pulling schollies.

Our program already has enough shit on it from the last 3 years that we cant afford to traverse that slippery slope.

There is a coach out there that went to 3 fugging final fours in a row and he cant get a job. You know why? Bc he was fucking with kids schollies.

I am far from a culture/socks guy, but this is one place we dont want to go.

Again, if a kid sees the writing on the wall and wants to leave, I have no problem helping him land somewhere.
 
I agree with TAB here. I have no problem setting expectations with the kid that PT will be limited or non-existent, you may want to transfer, etc. However, actually showing them the door seems over the top. I get that the scholarship is a annual commitment and the kids can go pro if they want. I just think that if we commit to a HS kid then our commitment means that if they stay out of trouble and get it done in the classroom then we'll get them a WFU degree.
 
CumberlandDeac said:
Would you also argue that it's unethical for a player to leave after two years to go to the NBA? That side isn't honoring his 4-year commitment either.
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I've never had an issue with these transfers but in that example, said player would be leaving for something better for their future, not getting forced to go play someplace worse. That's not the same thing.
 
bmoneydeac said:
I agree with TAB here. I have no problem setting expectations with the kid that PT will be limited or non-existent, you may want to transfer, etc. However, actually showing them the door seems over the top. I get that the scholarship is a annual commitment and the kids can go pro if they want. I just think that if we commit to a HS kid then our commitment means that if they stay out of trouble and get it done in the classroom then we'll get them a WFU degree.
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I haven't yet read an argument for just pulling schollies. I've only seen posts of people doing as you said and being honest with the kid that they won't get PT here, so it might be in their best interests to go elsewhere if they want to play often.
 
RJKarl said:
Do you have a 4.0 GPA and are doing community outreach for Wake Forest? If not, maybe we should force you out for a better student and Wake citizen.
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You do realize there's a difference between a scholarship and non-scholarship student, right? Non-sports scholarships can be revoked for exactly the things you mention (i.e. GPA, lack of community involvement, etc). That's far more harsh than what is being discussed here.
 
bmoneydeac said:
I agree with TAB here. I have no problem setting expectations with the kid that PT will be limited or non-existent, you may want to transfer, etc. However, actually showing them the door seems over the top. I get that the scholarship is a annual commitment and the kids can go pro if they want. I just think that if we commit to a HS kid then our commitment means that if they stay out of trouble and get it done in the classroom then we'll get them a WFU degree.
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None of our guys are a problem. Each has kept their part of the bargain they made with Wake Forest. I guarantee our coaches told the players and their parents that whether they made it to the NBA or pro ball or not, their son would get a Wake Forest degree.

Under no circumstances should we force any of these young men out of our school. Each has been a good ambassador and done their best.
 
CumberlandDeac said:
Would you also argue that it's unethical for a player to leave after two years to go to the NBA? That side isn't honoring his 4-year commitment either.
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It's all about what commitment is implied on behalf of the player and the school when a scholarship is offered. It's clearly not implied when you accept a scholarship that you would turn down an NBA job. If a recruit ever asked the question, "What if I'm a lottery pick after my second year", every coach would say "By all means you should go pro."

If a recruit asked "What if I'm sitting on the bench? Will I still be able to get my Wake degree?" If you, as a coach, would have the balls to tell him you'll be asked to leave, then by all means you're justified to kick him off the team if he sucks. I've never been recruited, so I don't know, but my guess is that when players are offered a scholarship it's implied they will be given four years to get their degree regardless of their basketball performance.
 
PhDeac said:
Why does it have to be a crap school?
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Well either we value the Wake education as near the top and most anywhere else worse or not. We can't have it both ways can we? The school doesn't have to be Forsyth Tech, but we also recruit them to Wake highlighting the benefits of an awesome education....and claim it's much better than probably most of the schools these guys would end up.
 
Wrangor just said 'encourage players to move on'. I think that goes beyond saying you arent going to play, and is classless bullshit.

Its a stupid argument anyway. No way Manning is going down that road, especially under Captain Culture's watch.
 
I could go either way on this, but if the hoops player remains in academic good standing, and wants to stay after a brutally honest eval that he will likely be nothing other than a practice player, I would prefer that he be allowed to stay for 4 years on his ride. With that said, the vast majority of basketball players want to play; so, the number of players that actually remain rather than transfer in that situation is few and far between.
 
Hard to sell the advantage of a Wake education on the recruiting trail if you're willing to deny guys that opportunity if they aren't producing on the court.
 
deacvision7 said:
I haven't yet read an argument for just pulling schollies. I've only seen posts of people doing as you said and being honest with the kid that they won't get PT here, so it might be in their best interests to go elsewhere if they want to play often.
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Wrangor and Ph haven't said "pulling schollies" but what is the end game? They are trying to encourage the kid to transfer. What if he says ya know I really like it here and I'll do what I can to be ready to get some burn if the time comes. I'll let them answer for themselves but is not honoring the schollie a fair move?
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
Wrangor just said 'encourage players to move on'. I think that goes beyond saying you arent going to play, and is classless bullshit.

Its a stupid argument anyway. No way Manning is going down that road, especially under Captain Culture's watch.
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"encourage players to move on" is simply a PC was of kicking their asses out. It's classless.
 
deacvision7 said:
I haven't yet read an argument for just pulling schollies. I've only seen posts of people doing as you said and being honest with the kid that they won't get PT here, so it might be in their best interests to go elsewhere if they want to play often.
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I think that's exactly the argument -- see Wrangor's last response to TAB. I don't think anyone is against being straight with a player about his future PT and helping him find a landing spot -- the point of contention is whether we should essentially force players to transfers. I'm with TAB on this one, pulling schollies is a scum tactic and will probably not pay off in the long run.
 
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