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any word on Daniel Green

DCDeac said:
The main point here is that it's ridiculous to act like all the Wake doctors are idiots and [Redacted] is a liar or whatever other inane assumptions are being drawn from simply waiting on an MRI that will very likely be non-conclusive.
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This.
 
DCDeac said:
Actually because I had an inside track, my guy was the Atlanta Hawks guy. My first injury was during my senior year of high school basketball and I had an outside shot at playing in college depending on where I went. Obviously not at Wake. But my treatment wasn't much different than a scholarship college player. I can rattle off a dozen examples of professional - not even college - athletes that had knee scopes without MRI's with significant previous damage, but it doesn't really matter.

The main point here is that it's ridiculous to act like all the Wake doctors are idiots and [Redacted] is a liar or whatever other inane assumptions are being drawn from simply waiting on an MRI that will very likely be non-conclusive. *

I think it's pretty odd that a radiologist would critique other doctors** without knowing the details of the patient outside of messageboard rumors. But hey, maybe they are just all liars and morons.
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*From the [Redacted] School of English?

**don't think he is critiquing the docs, but the stories coming out of the hoops and AD that don't jibe with his knowledge of medicine. And I'm pretty sure that Bzzz and Wellman are documented liars and morons (not necessarily in that order).
 
DCDeac said:
Actually because I had an inside track, my guy was the Atlanta Hawks guy. My first injury was during my senior year of high school basketball and I had an outside shot at playing in college depending on where I went. Obviously not at Wake. But my treatment wasn't much different than a scholarship college player. I can rattle off a dozen examples of professional - not even college - athletes that had knee scopes without MRI's with significant previous damage, but it doesn't really matter.

The main point here is that it's ridiculous to act like all the Wake doctors are idiots and [Redacted] is a liar or whatever other inane assumptions are being drawn from simply waiting on an MRI that will very likely be non-conclusive.

I think it's pretty odd that a radiologist would critique other doctors without knowing the details of the patient outside of messageboard rumors. But hey, maybe they are just all liars and morons.
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I'm sorry DC if I offended you. We have obviously have a difference of opinion in how these cases are managed medically. I'm basing my opinion off my medical training (an MSK fellowship that covered Dr. James Andrews othro clinic) and my current practice (not quite so high profile!). To my knowledge virtually every athlete that was operated on by Andrews group was imaged prior to surgery regardless of history or prior injuries. I stand by my statement that those guys don't want to take any chances on athletes knees and image prior to surgery to have the maximum information possible before cutting. Your experience may be different.

I never called Wake doctors idiots. I never even mentioned them. I actually reasoned/guessed that they likely did get an MRI based on my experience. If so, this would infer that I would consider them competent and appropriate, not idiots. I also never called [Redacted] a liar. I guessed he was withholding information (which I think he is).

I never critiqued any doctors. Again, I never mentioned WFU physicians. I was just trying to provide some insight into the situation based upon what I do professionally. It's a message board, lighten up!
 
In the gist of the thread I thought you were chiming in to agree that how Daniel Green was being handled made no sense. Sorry if I misread that as a critique of those handling him.

I don't really need to lighten up - I really don't care all that much. I just have had some discussions at length with one of the better surgeons around (operated on Shaq) and what he said didn't mesh with your take that there is "no reason" to ever wait to get an MRI. And the reasoning behind his opinion was not simply because you treat normal people different from athletes.

That's it. I'm sure you're great at what you do and know a billion times more than anyone else on the boards about it. I'm also sure that when you're rehabbing an ACL and you get some pain and swelling, immediately running for an MRI is not automatic and doesn't mean he's being mishandled.
 
DCDeac said:
In the gist of the thread I thought you were chiming in to agree that how Daniel Green was being handled made no sense. Sorry if I misread that as a critique of those handling him.

I don't really need to lighten up - I really don't care all that much. I just have had some discussions at length with one of the better surgeons around (operated on Shaq) and what he said didn't mesh with your take that there is "no reason" to ever wait to get an MRI. And the reasoning behind his opinion was not simply because you treat normal people different from athletes.

That's it. I'm sure you're great at what you do and know a billion times more than anyone else on the boards about it. I'm also sure that when you're rehabbing an ACL and you get some pain and swelling, immediately running for an MRI is not automatic and doesn't mean he's being mishandled.
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Jesus, you suck.
 
But back to my knee. Will it heal in time to launch off it at the tv on response to a 3rd and long draw play? Will I have to wait even longer for a botched inbounds play? Or need I get a knee reconstruction or hell replacement to watch ?
 
DCDeac said:
Stick to insulting Lobo's family. I disagree with Ph about 80% of the time but at least he doesn't stoop to stuff like that.
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Thank god the WF coaching community has their white knight to stick up for them. Between this and your medical knowledge, I'm surprised they haven't hired you yet.
 
I might be able to add a few small points here:
- Usually it will be the athletic trainer that will discuss any detail on the progress of an injured athlete. In this case, Greg Collins. The doctors will be a bit less accessible.
- Ron Wellman and Jeff [Redacted] have absolutely no say in when or whether Daniel Green gets an MRI. That decision is 100% made by the medical staff.
- There is definitely truth to the comments that Daniel's knee will not be treated the same as a "typical" knee, though there might be a little bit less urgency in the off-season. Imaging will be much more liberal in order to know as much as possible as soon as possible. There is a pretty low bar for getting an MRI on a D1 athlete.

Now I am just speculating on the info out there. Perhaps the "MRI in 3 weeks" was a fallback. Perhaps they were somewhat reassured by the exam, wanted to give him a chance to test it a bit and if things are not headed in the right direction then let's do the MRI. Because it might be a bit harder to interpret the imaging in light of the prior surgery and some acute swelling maybe we don't jump to an MRI as quick as we might otherwise have. Ultimately, what matters is the function, not the pictures. All that said, that is just my best shot at putting the pieces together and it does not quite make sense to me. Therefore, I believe there is just some important info we/I just don't know. I appreciate DC's comments, as he is just passing along what he got from his ortho and thought it would add to the conversation. However, pretty much any surgeon considering doing a 'scope is going to want imaging first. You can reasonably argue to do the scope first to "clean things up a bit" and you get a direct visual (and even get to tug) on the ACL. Then you can go back and do any additional repair later. Sounds good in theory, but most would appreciate the MRI first.


For context, I am a sports medicine physician and a team physician with a D1 school.
 
Tobacco Road said:
I might be able to add a few small points here:
- Usually it will be the athletic trainer that will discuss any detail on the progress of an injured athlete. In this case, Greg Collins. The doctors will be a bit less accessible.
- Ron Wellman and Jeff [Redacted] have absolutely no say in when or whether Daniel Green gets an MRI. That decision is 100% made by the medical staff.
- There is definitely truth to the comments that Daniel's knee will not be treated the same as a "typical" knee, though there might be a little bit less urgency in the off-season. Imaging will be much more liberal in order to know as much as possible as soon as possible. There is a pretty low bar for getting an MRI on a D1 athlete.

Now I am just speculating on the info out there. Perhaps the "MRI in 3 weeks" was a fallback. Perhaps they were somewhat reassured by the exam, wanted to give him a chance to test it a bit and if things are not headed in the right direction then let's do the MRI. Because it might be a bit harder to interpret the imaging in light of the prior surgery and some acute swelling maybe we don't jump to an MRI as quick as we might otherwise have. Ultimately, what matters is the function, not the pictures. All that said, that is just my best shot at putting the pieces together and it does not quite make sense to me. Therefore, I believe there is just some important info we/I just don't know. I appreciate DC's comments, as he is just passing along what he got from his ortho and thought it would add to the conversation. However, pretty much any surgeon considering doing a 'scope is going to want imaging first. You can reasonably argue to do the scope first to "clean things up a bit" and you get a direct visual (and even get to tug) on the ACL. Then you can go back and do any additional repair later. Sounds good in theory, but most would appreciate the MRI first.


For context, I am a sports medicine physician and a team physician with a D1 school.
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So in other words you don't know a god damn thing.
 
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