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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - Charles Coleman de-commits to Wake. :(

jaybone said:
The only problem is that pesky narrative doesn't work as it relates to Hoard and Mucius, does it? BudatWake actually wrote that we just can't close the deal - one year after we closed the deal on our highest ranked recruit since Aminu and two years after we beat Kansas for Chaundee.

I get why there is a ton of anxiety around the program - recently culminating in our hottest youngest recruiter (who may not be all that as a court coach) most likely going down for punching a drunk in the face. But the facts don't necessarily backup the easy narrative many of you choose to paint.

Doesn't mean we have a young Coach K or even a young Coach Thompson which would seem to be Manning's ceiling (a great one), but it doesn't mean we have Bob Wade as coach either.
Click to expand...

I agree with all that. Maybe a better way to put it is that they couldn’t close the deal often enough, both on and off the court.

Manning and [Redacted]’s w/l records are notoriously similar, but because close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, those totals don’t capture how much more competitive Manning’s teams have been.

Almost half of Manning’s games (62 of 127) have been one possession games at some point in the last 3 minutes of regulation. He has gone 23-39 (11-29 in conference).

About a fifth of [Redacted]’s games were within one possession in the final three minutes and he went 18-11 (7-5).

Manning’s shit record in close games is a combination of his lack of ability in those situations, randomness, and overall team quality. He did enough to put together a team that could compete in most games, but not enough to win those games.

That’s why the [Redacted] comparisons and the complaints of hopelessness ring hollow to me. Even if [Redacted] had won every single game he had a chance of winning down the stretch, he still wouldn’t have sniffed the NCAA tournament.
 
RChildress107 said:
I agree with all that. Maybe a better way to put it is that they couldn’t close the deal often enough, both on and off the court.

Manning and [Redacted]’s w/l records are notoriously similar, but because close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, those totals don’t capture how much more competitive Manning’s teams have been.

Almost half of Manning’s games (62 of 127) have been one possession games at some point in the last 3 minutes of regulation. He has gone 23-39 (11-29 in conference).

About a fifth of [Redacted]’s games were within one possession in the final three minutes and he went 18-11 (7-5).

Manning’s shit record in close games is a combination of his lack of ability in those situations, randomness, and overall team quality. He did enough to put together a team that could compete in most games, but not enough to win those games.

That’s why the [Redacted] comparisons and the complaints of hopelessness ring hollow to me. Even if [Redacted] had won every single game he had a chance of winning down the stretch, he still wouldn’t have sniffed the NCAA tournament.
Click to expand...

Yes, nailed it.
 
jaybone and RC, do you like horseshoes, hand grenades, or both?
 
RChildress107 said:
I agree with all that. Maybe a better way to put it is that they couldn’t close the deal often enough, both on and off the court.

Manning and [Redacted]’s w/l records are notoriously similar, but because close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, those totals don’t capture how much more competitive Manning’s teams have been.

Almost half of Manning’s games (62 of 127) have been one possession games at some point in the last 3 minutes of regulation. He has gone 23-39 (11-29 in conference).

About a fifth of [Redacted]’s games were within one possession in the final three minutes and he went 18-11 (7-5).

Manning’s shit record in close games is a combination of his lack of ability in those situations, randomness, and overall team quality. He did enough to put together a team that could compete in most games, but not enough to win those games.

That’s why the [Redacted] comparisons and the complaints of hopelessness ring hollow to me. Even if [Redacted] had won every single game he had a chance of winning down the stretch, he still wouldn’t have sniffed the NCAA tournament.
Click to expand...
Dude. Nobody makes the Bz/Manning comparisons more than you. For every one post from someone simply posting the W/L record comparison without any further comment, there are 100 RChill posts like this one. No shit Bz is worse than Manning. You're literally talking to dead air (aside from maybe two or three olds/dumbasses) with stupid shit like this.
 
I believe Bizz beat Duke, UNC and UVA during his 4 years. I don’t believe Danny has a win over those teams. In fact he’s the only ACC coach who has been on the job 2 years or more who doesn’t have at least one win over that group.
 
jaybone said:
The only problem is that pesky narrative doesn't work as it relates to Hoard and Mucius, does it? BudatWake actually wrote that we just can't close the deal - one year after we closed the deal on our highest ranked recruit since Aminu and two years after we beat Kansas for Chaundee.

I get why there is a ton of anxiety around the program - recently culminating in our hottest youngest recruiter (who may not be all that as a court coach) most likely going down for punching a drunk in the face. But the facts don't necessarily backup the easy narrative many of you choose to paint.

Doesn't mean we have a young Coach K or even a young Coach Thompson which would seem to be Manning's ceiling (a great one), but it doesn't mean we have Bob Wade as coach either.
Click to expand...

The story of Wake recruiting under Manning is simple. We got good recruits before Manning started coaching and right after we made the First Four and before this season tanked. Dinos, Crawford, Moore, and Collins all committed before Manning coached a single game. Mucius committed last Sept and Hoard committed a year ago this Saturday. Chaundee is the only top 100 recruit who didn’t commit in those two windows. He committed in Oct before the 2016-17 season started.

That’s why back in March many of us knew that the 2019 class wasn’t going to save the program.
 
Ayo said:
Dude. Nobody makes the Bz/Manning comparisons more than you. For every one post from someone simply posting the W/L record comparison without any further comment, there are 100 RChill posts like this one. No shit Bz is worse than Manning. You're literally talking to dead air (aside from maybe two or three olds/dumbasses) with stupid shit like this.
Click to expand...

Shake said:
I believe Bizz beat Duke, UNC and UVA during his 4 years. I don’t believe Danny has a win over those teams. In fact he’s the only ACC coach who has been on the job 2 years or more who doesn’t have at least one win over that group.
Click to expand...

Lol.
 
Shake said:
I believe Bizz beat Duke, UNC and UVA during his 4 years. I don’t believe Danny has a win over those teams. In fact he’s the only ACC coach who has been on the job 2 years or more who doesn’t have at least one win over that group.
Click to expand...

So?
 
PhDeac said:
The story of Wake recruiting under Manning is simple. We got good recruits before Manning started coaching and right after we made the First Four and before this season tanked. Dinos, Crawford, Moore, and Collins all committed before Manning coached a single game. Mucius committed last Sept and Hoard committed a year ago this Saturday. Chaundee is the only top 100 recruit who didn’t commit in those two windows. He committed in Oct before the 2016-17 season started.
Click to expand...

This is a good post.
 
It's just a summation of facts I assumed everybody already knew and has been using in their arguments.
 
RChildress107 said:
I agree with all that. Maybe a better way to put it is that they couldn’t close the deal often enough, both on and off the court.

Manning and [name redacted]’s w/l records are notoriously similar, but because close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, those totals don’t capture how much more competitive Manning’s teams have been.

Almost half of Manning’s games (62 of 127) have been one possession games at some point in the last 3 minutes of regulation. He has gone 23-39 (11-29 in conference).

About a fifth of [name redacted]’s games were within one possession in the final three minutes and he went 18-11 (7-5).

Manning’s shit record in close games is a combination of his lack of ability in those situations, randomness, and overall team quality. He did enough to put together a team that could compete in most games, but not enough to win those games.

That’s why the [name redacted] comparisons and the complaints of hopelessness ring hollow to me. Even if [name redacted] had won every single game he had a chance of winning down the stretch, he still wouldn’t have sniffed the NCAA tournament.
Click to expand...

Pride is the only explanation for making this point to refute an argument nobody made, unless you're arguing against the fact that Manning is only a few games better than [Redacted].
 
PhDeac said:
Pride is the only explanation for making this point to refute an argument nobody made, unless you're arguing against the fact that Manning is only a few games better than [Redacted].
Click to expand...

Just a summation of facts I think most people didn’t already know that give context to a stat people post on here ad nauseum (apparently just for fun and not in support of some broader argument.

It also refutes the general conclusion that it was obvious, even back in 2015, that Manning wouldn’t get anywhere close to being a successful coach at Wake. Or the conclusion that, in hindsight, he was light years away from finding success here.

His margin for error was always thin, and unfortunately he could quite get within that margin.
 
K.Shedrick just picked UVA. Thought we might have a shot at him. Guess not.
 
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