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BBall Recruiting Thread 2k19 - Charles Coleman de-commits to Wake. :(

RChildress107 said:
Agree with that. But that’s an issue with how the AD acted in the past (the culture bullshit) and not the staff’s current recruiting practice.
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Did anybody indicate otherwise?
 
TJD announced a final 3 of UCLA, Michigan State, and Indiana. At least he wasn't choosing a shitty school like Illinois or Northwestern instead of us.
 
PG is probably the most locked down spot on the Wake roster. BChill's name was cast in concrete as starter once Crawford was gone. It will likely stay that way until he graduates in 2020, unless he is injured or the next Chris Paul level PG show up at Wake.

If Jamie Lewis stays healthy and can get back to near the average of the progression line he was on as a top 75 HS soph, there won't even be many back up minutes there.

I'd rather see the staff looking for bigs. Hoard could be one and done. Smart is a known one year grad guy. Sarr could follow the Dinos Mitiglou path and get a big offer from a prestigious team in France. Remember he was the top rated guy in the FIBA U17 tournament just before he arrived at Wake. Sunday Okeke and Isiah Mucius could be the only "bigs" returning in fall 2019.
 
Deaconblue said:
PG is probably the most locked down spot on the Wake roster. BChill's name was cast in concrete as starter once Crawford was gone. It will likely stay that way until he graduates in 2020, unless he is injured or the next Chris Paul level PG show up at Wake.

If Jamie Lewis stays healthy and can get back to near the average of the progression line he was on as a top 75 HS soph, there won't even be many back up minutes there.

I'd rather see the staff looking for bigs. Hoard could be one and done. Smart is a known one year grad guy. Sarr could follow the Dinos Mitiglou path and get a big offer from a prestigious team in France. Remember he was the top rated guy in the FIBA U17 tournament just before he arrived at Wake. Sunday Okeke and Isiah Mucius could be the only "bigs" returning in fall 2019.
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I've said before that bigs are definitely a priority, but the staff has pursued Cole Anthony, Anthony Harris, Jahcobi Neath, etc., so they obviously want a scoring PG. Ty Jones fits that mold and is still looking for better offers, possibly ACC specifically. Would rather him than Neath, just like would rather pursue Chol Marial than waste time on Josaphat Bilau. The hard sell would be Ty Jones is looking for 20-25 min per game and you'd have to convince him he would play despite Chill and Brown probably still being here if Manning and staff are. Personally, I'd rather fire Manning and get a good coach but if we are sticking with this guy at Wake he needs to bring in guys like Ty Jones and Chol Marial instead of wasting time on Neath and Bilau.
 
PhDeac said:
Did anybody indicate otherwise?
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Racer specifically mentioned the staff and has made several posts indicating he doesn’t think we should take players from schools such as QEA. I’m curious as to whether his criticism is specifically related to this staff or the practice in general.
 
netflixnchildres said:
https://basketballrecruiting.rivals...t-tyrell-jones-climbs-ranks-ponders-next-step

If Ty Jones is still wide open the staff should throw an offer out. Very talented PG, tight handle, physical. Would rather take a chance recruiting this kid than wasting time on Canada's 25th best player.
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It looks like he already has more than 30 offers, including multiple from the ACC. Can't imagine we would gain any traction this late in his recruiting if we haven't been involved already. Seems like wasted effort.
 
RChildress107 said:
Racer specifically mentioned the staff and has made several posts indicating he doesn’t think we should take players from schools such as QEA. I’m curious as to whether his criticism is specifically related to this staff or the practice in general.
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Practice in general. We're better than that. With a proper coach, we don't need to be taking kids that have had their high school record laundered through a fake school. If we ever take kids from those programs, it should be a rare, rare exception rather than the pipeline we seem to be working to build right now.
 
RacerDeac said:
Practice in general. We're better than that. With a proper coach, we don't need to be taking kids that have had their high school record laundered through a fake school. If we ever take kids from those programs, it should be a rare, rare exception rather than the pipeline we seem to be working to build right now.
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No we aren’t.

A de facto ban on JuCo players or pretending that a bad student from a shitty public school is qualitatively different than a bad student from a “fake” school is silly and elitist. Wake has always bent its academic standards when it comes to football and basketball (and legacies and rich kids). And there is nothing inherently wrong with that.

If a kid can qualify and can help the team we shouldn’t turn him away simply because he didn’t go to the right high school.
 
RChildress107 said:
No we aren’t.

A de facto ban on JuCo players or pretending that a bad student from a shitty public school is qualitatively different than a bad student from a “fake” school is silly and elitist. Wake has always bent its academic standards when it comes to football and basketball (and legacies and rich kids). And there is nothing inherently wrong with that.

If a kid can qualify and can help the team we shouldn’t turn him away simply because he didn’t go to the right high school.
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Come on, man. There is a big difference between taking kids from non-traditional high school backgrounds and actively recruiting kids from the places like QEA once all of your other prospects fall through. Our staff is just operating so transparently right now. It's gross.
 
RChildress107 said:
A de facto ban on JuCo players or pretending that a bad student from a shitty public school is qualitatively different than a bad student from a “fake” school is silly and elitist.
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Lol. Is it elitist to suggest that we only recruit players with the talent to play in the ACC (well, in theory anyway)? Do you establish any line at which it's no longer elitist to not recruit a kid?

RChildress107 said:
Wake has always bent its academic standards when it comes to football and basketball (and legacies and rich kids). And there is nothing inherently wrong with that.
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Never argued that there was. Only suggest that this is below the line of where we should bend.

RChildress107 said:
If a kid can qualify and can help the team we shouldn’t turn him away simply because he didn’t go to the right high school.
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It's not about going to the right high school. It's about NOT going to a fake high school. One that doesn't even exist except on paper. One specifically setup to "fix" a kid's high school academic record through fake courses and shadiness, while making no pretenses about what they are doing. It's the high school equivalent of the UNC academic scandal. It's bullshit. It's not a place we should be looking for players.

There are plenty of places that will give them the chance to play ball...it doesn't have to be at Wake. There's nothing wrong with standards. The NCAA sets some. Schools set their own above and beyond that if they wish. The NCAA sets no talent standards, but you don't seem to take issue with those that Wake has in place (admittedly, they are quite low right now).

The fact that it's being done by a staff that fails to hold themselves to, or meet, any real standards of success is just icing on the cake. The fact that Wellman has nothing to say about it and isn't inserting himself into the situation after trying to micromanage previous staffs is hypocrisy at it's finest. The fact that Manning talks about preparing kids for a time "after the ball stops bouncing" while supporting shady shortcuts to success is bullshit...then again, since history tells us that none of these guys will likely play for Manning long enough for him to influence their lives after the ball stops bouncing, this is moot point anyway.
 
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RacerDeac said:
Lol. Is it elitist to suggest that we only recruit players with the talent to play in the ACC (well, in theory anyway)? Do you establish any line at which it's no longer elitist to not recruit a kid?



Never argued that there was. Only suggest that this is below the line of where we should bend.



It's not about going to the right high school. It's about NOT going to a fake high school. One that doesn't even exist except on paper. One specifically setup to "fix" a kid's high school academic record through fake courses and shadiness, while making no pretenses about what they are doing. It's the high school equivalent of the UNC academic scandal. It's bullshit. It's not a place we should be looking for players.

There are plenty of places that will give them the chance to play ball...it doesn't have to be at Wake. There's nothing wrong with standards. The NCAA sets some. Schools set their own above and beyond that if they wish. The NCAA sets no talent standards, but you don't seem to take issue with those that Wake has in place (admittedly, they are quite low right now).

The fact that it's being done by a staff that fails to hold themselves to, or meet, any real standards of success is just icing on the cake. The fact that Wellman has nothing to say about it and isn't inserting himself into the situation after trying to micromanage previous staffs is hypocrisy at it's finest. The fact that Manning talks about preparing kids for a time "after the ball stops bouncing" while supporting shady shortcuts to success is bullshit...then again, since history tells us that none of these guys will likely play for Manning long enough for him to influence their lives after the ball stops bouncing, this is moot point anyway.
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What purpose does not taking these kids on principle serve?

1. Does it make Wake a better school? No

2. Does it help the kid? No

3. Does it help our basketball team? No

I’m fine with “being good at basketball” being an alternative track to get into a great school. Wake has several other “non-academic” tracks set up, both official and unofficial. Once that kid is here he has an obligation to show up and do the work if he wants to play basketball and the school and the staff have an obligation to make sure the kid gets a quality education.

But unless we are prepared to hold our athletes to academic standards befitting a top 30 University then let the NCAA do its job (setting and enforcing minimum standards for college athletes), let Manning do his job (putting together the best team possible), let Wellman do his job (making sure all our student athletes are living up to the student part), and let the University do its job (educate the students, regardless of how they got there).
 
Strickland33 said:
Come on, man. There is a big difference between taking kids from non-traditional high school backgrounds and actively recruiting kids from the places like QEA once all of your other prospects fall through. Our staff is just operating so transparently right now. It's gross.
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Not really. And again, if the staff signed Charles Bassey this summer instead of Wynn, no one on here would give a shit about where he went to school. Nor should they.
 
Racer, I know we had a long argument about this in another thread years ago, but I don't remember seeing any evidence that Wellman has micromanaged any coaching staffs at wake. It's a nonsense talking point which you've used to criticize Wellman and now, it seems, Manning.
 
RChildress107 said:
Not really. And again, if the staff signed Charles Bassey this summer instead of Wynn, no one on here would give a shit about where he went to school. Nor should they.
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It's almost like there's a difference between taking a flyer on a kid who is a known talent, and dumpster diving in the 400 section on kids who flunked out.
 
I believe that evidence has indicated that we have basic parameters above and beyond NCAA requirements to offer a scholarship. The one I am aware of is that any kid must have met those requirements upon graduating from their regular high school. If they couldn't have been accepted when graduating, but only after additional courses in a JUCO college, then they don't pass WFU minimum.

Other than that, like wakephan09 said, there is no evidence that Wellman micromanages. My best guess is that each program much achieve "results" academically or risk having their requirements mandated. That seemed to be the case with Dino in the wake of the Teague/Clark blowjob story and whatever else was happening at the time. Dino balked and whatever happened, resulted in his dismissal with Wellman essentially not coming clean with the rationale. Whatever it was, it resulted in Dino not being offered a job for a 5-year period of time. Only a former colleague has offered Dino a job. My best guess is that is because whenever a university was considering offering Dino a job, they changed their mind when checking in with his past employer.

Manning seems definitely to be nearing "the Dino zone" via any number of decision: not to fire Jones, to offer a scholly to a kid very clearly intending to be a one-and-done (actually a first for our program to the best of my knowledge), and offering scholarships to some kids from sketchy high schools.

Tune in next year Spring for details
 
wakephan09 said:
Racer, I know we had a long argument about this in another thread years ago, but I don't remember seeing any evidence that Wellman has micromanaged any coaching staffs at wake. It's a nonsense talking point which you've used to criticize Wellman and now, it seems, Manning.
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I think Ron tried to project he was micromanaging Buzz's teams to cover for the fact he made the worst hire in Wake sports history. He wasn't though Buzz was just that bad.
 
wakephan09 said:
Racer, I know we had a long argument about this in another thread years ago, but I don't remember seeing any evidence that Wellman has micromanaged any coaching staffs at wake. It's a nonsense talking point which you've used to criticize Wellman and now, it seems, Manning.
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So [Redacted] independently put together a staff and it just happened to include two former Wake basketball players.
 
jaybone said:
I believe that evidence has indicated that we have basic parameters above and beyond NCAA requirements to offer a scholarship. The one I am aware of is that any kid must have met those requirements upon graduating from their regular high school. If they couldn't have been accepted when graduating, but only after additional courses in a JUCO college, then they don't pass WFU minimum.

Other than that, like wakephan09 said, there is no evidence that Wellman micromanages. My best guess is that each program much achieve "results" academically or risk having their requirements mandated. That seemed to be the case with Dino in the wake of the Teague/Clark blowjob story and whatever else was happening at the time. Dino balked and whatever happened, resulted in his dismissal with Wellman essentially not coming clean with the rationale. Whatever it was, it resulted in Dino not being offered a job for a 5-year period of time. Only a former colleague has offered Dino a job. My best guess is that is because whenever a university was considering offering Dino a job, they changed their mind when checking in with his past employer.

Manning seems definitely to be nearing "the Dino zone" via any number of decision: not to fire Jones, to offer a scholly to a kid very clearly intending to be a one-and-done (actually a first for our program to the best of my knowledge), and offering scholarships to some kids from sketchy high schools.

Tune in next year Spring for details
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QEA kids dumber thannna sakkka bricks. Y'ALLL Betta LOOK THA FUCK OUT
 
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