• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Biden to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan by 9/11/21

W, and Rummy, and Dick, and Condi, and Colin all should have gone to prison for lying to us about the need to go the fuck over there in the first place! (Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, and bin Laden was in fuckin' Pakistan!)

But, hey, some Saudis attacked us on 9/11, so let's go fight some fuckin where! Isn't that the bottom line?
 
Okay, I'm not sure I follow that logic. That we beat back the leadership, communication abilities, logistical infrastructure and personnel of Al-Q is self-evident. Is the argument "Yeah, but they could just re-constitute in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Iraq, etc." That was always going to be true, right? I'd rather having them in re-building mode than unimpeded. If the goal was to destroy the desire (vice: ability) to reconstitute, then a humiliating pullout with a Taliban flag flying over the US Embassy isn't helpful, and we were better off in that one aspect in our de facto stalemate of April 2021 (still a bad idea).

beating back the leadership, communication, logical infrastructure did not require a military occupation and the spilled blood of 50,000 people and 90 billion taxpayer dollars. period. It should have been an intelligence operation with tactical teams taking out or capturing known terrorists when identified.

and the humiliation has been there since we went, in the deaths and dollars wasted on this shit. It was a fools errand from the getgo. That 90 billion could have been spent in much better counter-terrorist ways. I'm sorry for your friend's widow, never should have happened
 
beating back the leadership, communication, logical infrastructure did not require a military occupation and the spilled blood of 50,000 people and 90 billion taxpayer dollars. period. It should have been an intelligence operation with tactical teams taking out or capturing known terrorists when identified.

and the humiliation has been there since we went, in the deaths and dollars wasted on this shit. It was a fools errand from the getgo. That 90 billion could have been spent in much better counter-terrorist ways. I'm sorry for your friend's widow, never should have happened

Okay, but that stuff requires infrastructure. Overflight rights alone are contentious and expensive. You can't just say "Fly in SpecOps and press the boom button". Significantly easier with local basing, and local basing requires and airfield, and airfields require air base ground defense elements, and here we go. As far as I can tell, that was what the 2,500 people we had in country were doing: securing Bagram so we could deny the Taliban freedom of movement. I agree that an "occupation" was a bad idea, but a lighter footprint didn't offend me nearly as much.
 
50000 dead and 90 billion dollars to make it “easier” (20 years is easy!) to kill some terrorists and a bunch of innocents, and the threat is just as bad at best, and likely far worse -

Things don’t seem easy for your friends widow
 
I'll be sure to pass along your observations to my friend's widow. He was killed nine years ago this month in Kunar Province.

Your votes for George W. Bush and similar warhawks over the years led to your friend’s death. As someone who voted for Bush in 2004 I also shoulder some of the blame as well.

Our votes and campaign dollars do have consequences.
 
A $700 billion defense budget is difficult to justify without a war of some nature. There are representatives and senators in both parties of Congress dedicated to ensure the military receives an outlandish percentage of the budget. That is their primary function and that end justifies any means necessary. At the moment they are hard at work creating the atmosphere required to keep the gravy train running smoothly, cost to the nation be damned. You are watching the show as it proceeds and you are playing your roles as required. If you are unaware of the part you play, pay attention. You may learn something.

This show has been ongoing for over 60 years. Eisenhower warned us about it. Be glad we are out of Afghanistan, if we indeed accomplish that objective. As of this writing we are sending more troops to Kabul and apparently a sizable contingent of Americans remain in the country. Time will tell.
 
50000 dead and 90 billion dollars to make it “easier” (20 years is easy!) to kill some terrorists and a bunch of innocents, and the threat is just as bad at best, and likely far worse -

Things don’t seem easy for your friends widow

Agree to respectfully disagree. We tried malignant neglect in the 90s and it resulted in 9/11. We haven't had an attack on that scale since then. I believe you and I agree on the futility of that last 1/2 of our effort in Afghanistan but we're not going to see eye to eye on part 1.
 
From that standpoint — speaking as an American, as an adoptive Kandahari, and as a former senior U.S. government official — here are the key factors I see in today’s climax of a two-decade long fiasco:



Afghan government corruption, and the U.S. role enabling and reinforcing it. The last speaker of the Afghan parliament, Rahman Rahmani, I recently learned, is a multimillionaire, thanks to monopoly contracts to provide fuel and security to U.S. forces at their main base, Bagram. Is this the type of government people are likely to risk their lives to defend?



Two decades ago, young people in Kandahar were telling me how the proxy militias American forces had armed and provided with U.S. fatigues were shaking them down at checkpoints. By 2007, delegations of elders would visit me — the only American whose door was open and who spoke Pashtu so there would be no intermediaries to distort or report their words. Over candied almonds and glasses of green tea, they would get to some version of this: “The Taliban hit us on this cheek, and the government hits us on that cheek.” The old man serving as the group’s spokesman would physically smack himself in the face.



I and too many other people to count spent years of our lives trying to convince U.S. decision-makers that Afghans could not be expected to take risks on behalf of a government that was as hostile to their interests as the Taliban were. Note: it took me a while, and plenty of my own mistakes, to come to that realization. But I did. Americans like to think of ourselves as having valiantly tried to bring democracy to Afghanistan. Afghans, so the narrative goes, just weren’t ready for it, or didn’t care enough about democracy to bother defending it. Or we’ll repeat the cliche that Afghans have always rejected foreign intervention; we’re just the latest in a long line.

I was there. Afghans did not reject us. They looked to us as exemplars of democracy and the rule of law. They thought that’s what we stood for.

And what did we stand for? What flourished on our watch? Cronyism, rampant corruption, a Ponzi scheme disguised as a banking system, designed by U.S. finance specialists during the very years that other U.S. finance specialists were incubating the crash of 2008. A government system where billionaires get to write the rules.

Is that American democracy?



Well…?

https://www.sarahchayes.org/post/the-ides-of-august
 
https://www.osac.gov/Content/Report/2a11e105-3c74-4c72-85bb-1c50ea642d42

Security Alert: Afghanistan, Repatriation Assistance for U.S. Citizens
*OSAC notes that the costs involved in repatriation have changed since the U.S. Embassy in Kabul released this Alert. It remains correct for the date of its release, 8/14/2021, but has been superceded by follow-up alerts from the Embassy.

Security Alert: Repatriation Assistance for U.S. Citizens – August 14, 2021

The U.S. Embassy in Afghanistan has received reports that international commercial flights are still operating from Kabul, but seats may not be available. The U.S. Embassy is exploring options for U.S. citizens who want to depart and who have not been able to find a seat on commercial flights. This notice is to solicit information from U.S. citizens who may wish to utilize such a options. If you have an existing flight booked, do not cancel that booking. The Embassy cannot guarantee how many or if charter flights will be available and continues to urge all U.S. citizens in Afghanistan to take advantage of commercial flight options while they are still available as airports could experience unexpected closures with little to no warning.

To register for any option that might be identified to return to the United States, you must complete this Repatriation Assistance Request for each traveler in your group. Spouses and minor children of US citizens in Afghanistan who are awaiting immigrant visas should also complete this form if they wish to depart Please do so as soon as possible. You must complete this form even if you’ve previously submitted your information to the U.S. Embassy in Kabul. Do not call the U.S. Embassy in Kabul for details or updates about the flight. This form is only way to communicate interest in flight options. If we are able to arrange a flight, we will contact those who have indicated interest with additional specific information and will provide general information via the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program.

Eligibility Requirements:

U.S. Citizenship: The U.S. Embassy will prioritize U.S. citizens for any charter flights. U.S. citizens with a non-citizen spouse or unmarried children (under age 21) may include their family members in their repatriation assistance requests but should indicate each family member’s citizenship and whether each has a valid passport and/or a U.S. visa.
If you are a non-U.S. citizen parent of a U.S. citizen minor, please indicate whether you have appropriate travel documentation to enter the United States (i.e. valid U.S. visa). If you do not have appropriate travel documentation, please identify an individual who currently has valid travel documentation who could accompany your U.S. citizen minor.

U.S. lawful permanent residents may submit a repatriation assistance request, and their request will be considered depending on availability.

Flight Costs: Repatriation flights are not free, and passengers will be required to sign a promissory loan agreement and may not be eligible to renew their U.S. passports until the loan is repaid. The cost may be $2,000USD or more per person.
Travel Documents: All passengers should have valid travel documents required for entry into the United States (e.g. U.S. passports or visas)

Facepalm
 
don't forget the multimillionaires too though, they have a say
 
I just read there may be an exemption in place for US citizens, but damn that would be some harsh shit if they didn't.
 
i mean, $2000 for a flight back to the US from the other side of the planet seems pretty fair. quick google shows about $1500+ to get to islamabad from harrisburg.
 
i mean, $2000 for a flight back to the US from the other side of the planet seems pretty fair. quick google shows about $1500+ to get to islamabad from harrisburg.

Sure. But I can see the point that we are (hopefully) at the end of spending over $2T on this war. Forcing people to pay to get out seems silly.
 
sailor, you did pretty well to drop the "lube" bit a month or so ago; or at least it seemed so. I get that you are cackling to yourself every time about how funny you are, but it's genuinely stupid and takes away from any points you might actually be trying to make. If you're going to continue using it, could you at least explain the joke? (note: same is true for "GQP").

it's simply a jest, a turning of the tables on the expression "rube", which lefties around here started using to try to smear anyone who disagreed with them

and yet it has aroused an incredible amount of ridiculous wailing and caterwauling around here

considering the unceasing and constant calumny the lefties heap on anyone who dares to refuse to goosestep to their nonsense, no one can take your absurd objections seriously
 
Pretty much everybody here takes diggler's comments seriously just like pretty much nobody here takes sailor's comments seriously.
 
it's simply a jest, a turning of the tables on the expression "rube", which lefties around here started using to try to smear anyone who disagreed with them

and yet it has aroused an incredible amount of ridiculous wailing and caterwauling around here

considering the unceasing and constant calumny the lefties heap on anyone who dares to refuse to goosestep to their nonsense, no one can take your absurd objections seriously

"incredible amount"
 
Back
Top