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Biden to withdraw all troops from Afghanistan by 9/11/21

it's probably just a bunch of rich white kid backpackers

CANCEL WHITE KIDS!!!!1!

A British student who traveled to Afghanistan for 'adventure' during the Taliban's uprising appeared to delete footage showing his evacuation after facing backlash

https://www.yahoo.com/news/british-student-traveled-afghanistan-adventure-201639506.html

863dec2a2d3fd2661d77cadc235856d2
 
I'm actually interested to hear your take on this -- assuming a withdrawal was set to occur in 2021, how should it have been different?

what were the specific decisions where Biden fucked up?

Giving up the air base without securing diplomatic/civilian personnel was unwise. It is like they had a phased withdrawal but they held the list upside down.
 
Giving up the air base without securing diplomatic/civilian personnel was unwise. It is like they had a phased withdrawal but they held the list upside down.

yeah, this is my take based on my limited understanding, that they reversed the order of operations that seem so obvious
 
Americans in general. Until this weekend. Just like you.

So you’re not even pretending this isn’t just partisan politics.

I'll be sure to pass along your observations to my friend's widow. He was killed nine years ago this month in Kunar Province.
 
Giving up the air base without securing diplomatic/civilian personnel was unwise. It is like they had a phased withdrawal but they held the list upside down.

Without US military and maintenance support, especially air and intelligence assistance, the Afghan military was not functional. The Biden administration knew that as well as anyone. Yet, they removed exactly what the Afghan forces needed. Thus, the withdrawal turned into a rout, and Biden will have to buy back the Americans and their Afghan allies left behind. Furthermore, they will not be able to whet Afghan applicants very effectively because much of the necessary personal information on these people has fallen into Taliban hands.
 
The consent manufacturing sector is really humming now for a complete re-invasion, from the videos and photos we've already seen (organic) to the thought pieces on how Afghanistan is sitting on lithium and other precious metals we need, to only interviewing the generals and Blob talking heads (similar to the fixation the press has with interviewing unvaccinated people, rural Trump voters, etc.). The way I see it is there are purely partisan networks (Fox, MSNBC, etc) and there are opportunistic networks, and each has a vested interest in spinning this as atrocity rather than placing it contextually as a generational end to a war.

I recognize the risk and reality of brutality the country now faces at the hands of the Taliban, but where was this fury when our Afghan trained military was raping young boys en masse? Where does the frustration over the hundreds of billions funneled to a few Northern Virginia area contractors and arms manufacturers and war think tanks who just took this huge L go?

Let's be real here, the main reason this is an issue is americans don't like seeing guys in turbans win. We'll be back.
 
I'll be sure to pass along your observations to my friend's widow. He was killed nine years ago this month in Kunar Province.

I don't want people fighting and dying in bullshit wars. You do. Sad about your friend.
 
Without US military and maintenance support, especially air and intelligence assistance, the Afghan military was not functional. The Biden administration knew that as well as anyone. Yet, they removed exactly what the Afghan forces needed. Thus, the withdrawal turned into a rout, and Biden will have to buy back the Americans and their Afghan allies left behind. Furthermore, they will not be able to whet Afghan applicants very effectively because much of the necessary personal information on these people has fallen into Taliban hands.

Do you think Trump's Doha deal was a good one or should have been renegotiated by Biden?
 
I'll be sure to pass along your observations to my friend's widow. He was killed nine years ago this month in Kunar Province.

I'm sure you opposed this idiotic, ill-advised war back in 2001 when you were serving. RIP to your friend and all Americans and Afghanis a who died unnecessarily in these ME energy adventures.
 
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I'm sure you opposed this idiotic, ill-advised war back in 2001 when you were serving. RIP to your friend and all Americans and Afghanis a who died unnecessarily in these ME energy adventures.

Back in 2001 this wasn't an idiotic, ill-advised war. Ignoring Al-Q in the 1990s when they were blowing up our embassies in Africa and targeting our Airmen and Sailors in a war they declared on us led to 9/11. My friends on the left chastised W for "ignoring" the PDB about the threat posed by unnamed MAM from Arabic countries [I've always wondered what he was supposed to do with that warning; or rather how those same people would have reacted had he actually done anything about it].

But it any event we had to respond after 9/11, so I supported OEF then (and stand behind that decision now). Because of those efforts, Al-Q's ability to threaten us was severely degraded and that simply had to happen. The achievable goals had been attained by 2013 at the latest (based on the window of time after Neptune Spear where the intel obtained would have been useful). Anything after that was mission impossible.
 
Back in 2001 this wasn't an idiotic, ill-advised war. Ignoring Al-Q in the 1990s when they were blowing up our embassies in Africa and targeting our Airmen and Sailors in a war they declared on us led to 9/11. My friends on the left chastised W for "ignoring" the PDB about the threat posed by unnamed MAM from Arabic countries [I've always wondered what he was supposed to do with that warning; or rather how those same people would have reacted had he actually done anything about it].

But it any event we had to respond after 9/11, so I supported OEF then (and stand behind that decision now). Because of those efforts, Al-Q's ability to threaten us was severely degraded and that simply had to happen. The achievable goals had been attained by 2013 at the latest (based on the window of time after Neptune Spear where the intel obtained would have been useful). Anything after that was mission impossible.

The bad idea was setting up a military occupation after the Al Q training camps were decimated and bin Laden had been run off to Pakistan. After Tora Bora we should have packed up and left, but instead we occupied and then invaded Iraq too. Pretty poor planning all around, and 19 years later Biden is left to clean up GOP messes with a hollowed out state department.
 
In case anybody was curious to know how this matter would have been handled had the election not been stolen by millions of illegal and dead voters in Penn/Mich/Wisc/Ga/Az,

 
This woke thing with the military has to be some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen -- which is really saying quite a bit.
 
Back in 2001 this wasn't an idiotic, ill-advised war. Ignoring Al-Q in the 1990s when they were blowing up our embassies in Africa and targeting our Airmen and Sailors in a war they declared on us led to 9/11. My friends on the left chastised W for "ignoring" the PDB about the threat posed by unnamed MAM from Arabic countries [I've always wondered what he was supposed to do with that warning; or rather how those same people would have reacted had he actually done anything about it].

But it any event we had to respond after 9/11, so I supported OEF then (and stand behind that decision now). Because of those efforts, Al-Q's ability to threaten us was severely degraded and that simply had to happen. The achievable goals had been attained by 2013 at the latest (based on the window of time after Neptune Spear where the intel obtained would have been useful). Anything after that was mission impossible.

You aren't going back far enough before 9/11 jh. US ineptitude for almost the entire 20th century led to AQ emergence but that's another thread probably.

Responding to 9/11 with OEF didn't severely degrade terrorists ability to threaten us, it made it worse.

the effort to prevent terrorist safe havens is based on a false premise that territorial safe havens matter much at all. But even accepting the flawed premise, U.S. policies have multiplied the number of “ungoverned spaces” as incubators for terrorist groups. As Zenko points out, “troops maintained in foreign countries to prevent terrorism actually increase the probability that those troops’ home countries and global interests will experience terrorism.”

https://www.cato.org/blog/lets-face-it-us-policy-middle-east-has-failed


The need to destroy safe havens — defined by the U.S. State Department as an “area of relative security exploited by terrorists to indoctrinate, recruit, coalesce, train, and regroup, as well as prepare and support their operations” — was the premise for the war in Afghanistan and for the expansion of drone operations into Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia. Most recently, it has underlined the rationale for initiating an open-ended war to degrade and destroy the Islamic State. Although Secretary of Homeland Security Jeh Johnson has emphasized since September that the Islamic State poses no credible threat to the U.S. homeland, policymakers continue to conflate the group’s relative safe haven with its ability to conduct international attacks. Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel claimed, “These fighters can exploit [the Islamic State’s] safe haven to plan, coordinate, and carry out attacks against the United States and Europe.” Similarly, Nicholas Rasmussen, now director of the National Counterterrorism Center, contended that a safe haven would allow the Islamic State “to bring additional Western potential operatives into Iraq or Syria, into that safe haven, and potentially train, equip, and deploy them back out to Europe and the United States.”

Given that the United States is over 13 years into this campaign and that the size of foreign terrorist organizations that the United States is at war with has grown or stayed the same size, it is well past time to test the truth and wisdom behind the safe-haven assumption. Spoiler alert: The support for its universal acceptance simply is not there.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/26/al-qaeda-islamic-state-myth-of-the-terrorist-safe-haven/

n this policy analysis, we argue that the War on Terror has been a failure. This failure has two fundamental — and related — sources. The first is the inflated assessment of the terrorist threat facing the United States, which led to an expansive counterterrorism campaign focused on a series of actions that have very little to do with protecting Americans from terrorist attacks. The second source of failure is the adoption of an aggressive strategy of military intervention. This is due in large part to the faulty assessment of the terrorism challenge. But it also stems from the widespread belief among Washington, D.C., elites in the indispensable nature of American power and the utility of military force in international politics. Together, these factors have produced an American strategy that is both ineffective and counterproductive.

https://www.cato.org/policy-analysi...foreign-policy-failed-war-terror#introduction
 
You aren't going back far enough before 9/11 jh. US ineptitude for almost the entire 20th century led to AQ emergence but that's another thread probably.

Responding to 9/11 with OEF didn't severely degrade terrorists ability to threaten us, it made it worse.



https://www.cato.org/blog/lets-face-it-us-policy-middle-east-has-failed




https://foreignpolicy.com/2015/01/26/al-qaeda-islamic-state-myth-of-the-terrorist-safe-haven/



https://www.cato.org/policy-analysi...foreign-policy-failed-war-terror#introduction

Okay, I'm not sure I follow that logic. That we beat back the leadership, communication abilities, logistical infrastructure and personnel of Al-Q is self-evident. Is the argument "Yeah, but they could just re-constitute in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, Iraq, etc." That was always going to be true, right? I'd rather having them in re-building mode than unimpeded. If the goal was to destroy the desire (vice: ability) to reconstitute, then a humiliating pullout with a Taliban flag flying over the US Embassy isn't helpful, and we were better off in that one aspect in our de facto stalemate of April 2021 (still a bad idea).
 
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