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Biggest Reform EVER passed thread

I've had scholarships, fellowships, tuition concessions, tuition waivers, grants, stipends, and bursaries and I can't tell you the difference. But my taxes have always been markedly different with each one.
 
wakephan09 said:
I'm not a lawyer, so I can't argue with the Tax Code. But how is it possibly fair to make someone tax liable for money they never see (and therefore can't afford to pay taxes on)?
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Cancellation of indebtedness income is probably the closest example. Also taxation of pass-through entities - you pick up the income, regardless of whether you get an actual distribution of cash. Like I said, I think there should be an exclusion of undergraduate and graduate tuition waivers and reductions (as well as scholarships and anything similar), but it is still income.
 
What’s crazy about the tax system, and it makes sense with anything you do to it, is that the better off you are the bigger the impact. However for most people if you use the chart tilt posted you are fucking around with things that for all intensive purposes massively increases the deficit while not doing much of anything for people. Like even at like 300,000 income with 2.1% after tax increase that 6,300 is money the government now doesn’t have and the only one that will be excited and spend that money is Palma
 
Anyhow, if you let poorer people make or keep more money, most all of it goes into the economy to pay for goods and services--trickles up to the rich anyway but by way of more middle class/poor folks (clerks, fast food workers, etc.). Richer folks? More to saving/investing. Seems the former is more of an economic boon. ?
 
This is a good point:

It’s also telling that though neither bill is good for the middle class, the two bills’ treatment of middle-class tax issues is actually quite different. Where they’re very similar is in providing large tax cuts to business owners and heirs to large estates. That’s because, obviously, the main intellectual and emotional core of the effort is an attempt to provide large tax cuts to business owners and heirs to large estates. The middle-class provisions are afterthoughts, scrounged together to meet messaging goals.
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Link

Both the House bill and Senate bill are consistent on the tax cut for corporations and estate taxes, which should demonstrate the actual purpose of the bill. Everything else is an attempt to make it palatable.
 
Next Up: Tax Reform

tiltdeac said:
I just don't see how you can pretend you are prioritizing the middle class with a distribution analysis that looks like this, without even considering some of the health care implications. And this is before all the tax cuts sunset.

11-17-17tax2-f1.png


https://www.cbpp.org/research/feder...-bill-skewed-to-top-hurts-many-low-and-middle
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Because that's already been debunked as not real from earlier in this thread. It's weird accounting of the ACA tax credits.
 
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palmab03 said:
Because that's already been debunked as not real from earlier in this thread. It's weird accounting of the ACA tax credits.
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No matter how you count the ACA credits, all of the analyses, static and dynamic show largely the same thing. Small to non-existent temporary cuts to the middle and lower class with long term tax increases to those groups, with large long term cuts for the wealthy. Even the conservative think tanks agree here.
 
tiltdeac said:
No matter how you count the ACA credits, all of the analyses, static and dynamic show largely the same thing. Small to non-existent temporary cuts to the middle and lower class with long term tax increases to those groups, with large long term cuts for the wealthy. Even the conservative think tanks agree here.
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assuming by 2027 they just let everything expire, which they won't. And if they do? I'm happy for 10 years of savings.
 
Also important to note that the TPC analysis doesn't include all the lower and middle class people that would be screwed by the repeal of the individual mandate, among other things, so they include this line

Our estimates of the number of taxpayers that would pay more tax or less tax than under current law exclude certain minor provisions (listed in tables 4,5, and 6) for which it is difficult to assign the tax changes to specific taxpayers. 4 Overall, the excluded provisions represent a net tax increase, so we are overestimating the number of taxpayers that would see a tax cut and underestimating the number of taxpayers that would see a tax increase
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Wakelaw2006 said:
Cancellation of indebtedness income is probably the closest example. Also taxation of pass-through entities - you pick up the income, regardless of whether you get an actual distribution of cash. Like I said, I think there should be an exclusion of undergraduate and graduate tuition waivers and reductions (as well as scholarships and anything similar), but it is still income.
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Here's the copy from the IRS website:

Qualified Tuition Reduction

If you are allowed to study tuition free or for a reduced rate of tuition, you may not have to pay tax on this benefit. This is called a "tuition reduction." You don't have to include a qualified tuition reduction in your income.

A tuition reduction is qualified only if you receive it from, and use it at, an eligible educational institution. You don't have to use the tuition reduction at the eligible educational institution from which you received it. In other words, if you work for an eligible educational institution and the institution arranges for you to take courses at another eligible educational institution without paying any tuition, you may not have to include the value of the free courses in your income.

The rules for determining if a tuition reduction is qualified, and therefore tax free, are different if the education provided is below the graduate level or is graduate education.

You must include in your income any tuition reduction you receive that is payment for your services. 

Officers, owners, and highly compensated employees. 

Qualified tuition reductions apply to officers, owners, or highly compensated employees only if benefits are available to employees on a nondiscriminatory basis. This means that the tuition reduction benefits must be available on substantially the same basis to each member of a group of employees. The group must be defined under a reasonable classification set up by the employer. The classification must not discriminate in favor of owners, officers, or highly compensated employees. 

Payment for services. 

Generally, you must include in income the part of any qualified tuition reduction that represents payment for teaching, research, or other services by the student required as a condition of receiving the qualified tuition reduction. This applies even if all candidates for a degree must perform the services to receive the degree. (See below for exceptions.)

Exceptions. 

You don't have to include in income the part of any scholarship or fellowship grant that represents payment for teaching, research, or other services if you receive the amount under:

The National Health Service Corps Scholarship Program,

The Armed Forces Health Professions Scholarship and Financial Assistance Program, or

A comprehensive student work-learning-service program (as defined in section 448(e) of the Higher Education Act of 1965) operated by a work college (as defined in that section).

Graduate Education

A tuition reduction you receive for graduate education is qualified, and therefore tax free, if both of the following requirements are met.

It is provided by an eligible educational institution.

You are a graduate student who performs teaching or research activities for the educational institution.

You must include in income any other tuition reductions for graduate education that you receive.
 
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