Billionaire pays off Morehouse graduating class’s student debt

[Strickland33]

Most of my evidence is anecdotal, I agree, but I disagree with your assessment. My point about the starving college student is related to the country-club nature of campuses now. In the 'old days' dorms were spartan and campuses were focused on educating students. Now dorms are luxurious and campuses are covered with fancy student centers, and rec centers and world-class work-out rooms, pools, and on and on. you must know that this is true. I went through the process of touring schools with my kids over the past 10 years or so and was amazed at what I saw on campus after campus. None of it essential to the mission of the school but intended to attract more students.

The glut of students clamoring for space on campuses has many causes - including the population bubble as the children of baby-boomers reached college age, the aforementioned societal changes that created the expectation that everyone go to college, etc. - but, the easy access to student loans was definitely a factor.

I think most of those amenities are the product of wealthy donors, though, right?

I’m losing track of the argument, but I appreciate your perspective as a parent.

I teach at a big university and a lot of my students are struggling. Many work multiple jobs and a lot of them live at home (even though I don’t work at a “commuter school”). I have never been in the dorms, though. Probably a good thing. I can imagine that they’re probably fine, but nothing special. Facilities here tend to be good where there is donor money and shitty where there isn’t donor money. Nice law school library and business school facilities. Shitty research library. Same as most places, I think? Tuition here is really high but less than a third of what a student pays annually at Wake.

Wake seems to be more of an outlier in this case - expensive, small, exclusive, private university. I’m no expert, but there can’t be that many of them. Liberal arts colleges and big private universities are in a similar league, but don’t make up the majority of schools and probably don’t explain close to the majority of student debt. Students at these schools are also much better off in terms of job market outcomes, too.

I think that as long as Wake remains a good school (in terms of education and job market outcomes), then students will take risks to get an education there. It’s a rip-off, for sure, but I really can’t imagine that schools like Wake are driving the student debt crisis.

 

[WFcatamount22]

I think most of those amenities are the product of wealthy donors, though, right?

I’m losing track of the argument, but I appreciate your perspective as a parent.

I teach at a big university and a lot of my students are struggling. Many work multiple jobs and a lot of them live at home (even though I don’t work at a “commuter school”). I have never been in the dorms, though. Probably a good thing. I can imagine that they’re probably fine, but nothing special. Facilities here tend to be good where there is donor money and shitty where there isn’t donor money. Nice law school library and business school facilities. Shitty research library. Same as most places, I think? Tuition here is really high but less than a third of what a student pays annually at Wake.

Wake seems to be more of an outlier in this case - expensive, small, exclusive, private university. I’m no expert, but there can’t be that many of them. Liberal arts colleges and big private universities are in a similar league, but don’t make up the majority of schools and probably don’t explain close to the majority of student debt. Students at these schools are also much better off in terms of job market outcomes, too.

I think that as long as Wake remains a good school (in terms of education and job market outcomes), then students will take risks to get an education there. It’s a rip-off, for sure, but I really can’t imagine that schools like Wake are driving the student debt crisis.

Wake isn’t, it’s schools like wcu, Ecu, USF, shitty private schools, and all for profit schools when they are not selling students majors with employement opportunities.

 

[inspectah]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/20/...l?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

 

[ConnorEl]

^

That’s essentially the correct take, IMO.



[politics]So...if only we could disabuse approximately 1/2 of our population of the destructive notions that to solve problems we need “less” government, taxes, and regulation.[/politics]

 

[ChrisL68]

My goal is to leave my kids with no student debt (not bad with the third grade reading and comprehension skills i developed with my graduate degree in accounting) but if I was getting ready to go to college now and was faced with having to finance my own education there's no way I wouldn't take advantage of the community college system.

 

[marquee moon]

My goal is to leave my kids with no student debt (not bad with the third grade reading and comprehension skills i developed with my graduate degree in accounting) but if I was getting ready to go to college now and was faced with having to finance my own education there's no way I wouldn't take advantage of the community college system.

+1

 

[ConnorEl]

Yep—2 years there followed by public university.


Unless you get a great scholarship somewhere.

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

Outside of technical majors (engineering, etc.) philosophy majors are (or used to be) among the highest scorers on the LSAT. It’s a skill set that transfers well to law school.

No, it's a skill set that transfers well to taking the LSAT. Whether it transfers well to law school, or actually being a lawyer, is a completely different issue.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

No, it's a skill set that transfers well to taking the LSAT. Whether it transfers well to law school, or actually being a lawyer, is a completely different issue.

statistics disagree with you

 

[PhDeac]

scooter, I'm sure I don't have to explain that the campus tour isn't going to show you the everyday struggles of college students. I'm sure they didn't take you by the food pantry or by the parking lot where kids are sleeping in their car because they can't afford rent or on campus housing.

Here's an article from yesterday featuring some work by a friend of mine at Temple.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/real-cost-school-first-generation-college-students-n1007796

In a recent survey released by Temple University’s Hope Center for College, Community and Justice, 45 percent of student respondents from over 100 institutions said they had been food insecure in the past 30 days, which means they did not have reliable access to nutritious food. In addition to food insecurity, 60 percent of survey respondents at two-year institutions and 48 percent at four-year institutions experience housing insecurity, which is defined as “a broad set of challenges such as the inability to pay rent or utilities or the need to move frequently.” Homelessness affects 18 percent of survey respondents at two-year institutions and 14 percent at four-year institutions.

“The biggest gap in understanding the cost of college has to do with nontuition expenses, which are primarily living expenses,” says Sara Goldrick-Rab, director of the Hope Center and the lead author of the report.



This isn’t just about the stereotypical “broke college student” living off of ramen noodles in a dorm. According to the federal government’s 2018 U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) report, insufficient food and housing undermines postsecondary educational experiences for many of today’s college students, including their ability to complete their degrees.


“This is a basic needs issue,” Goldrick-Rab says. “It’s about the basic needs of college students across the country not being met.”


These aren't "broke college students." Those "broke college students" in the 70s, 80s, and 90s likely didn't work 20+ hours a week much less full time. They could devote more time to finishing in 4 years and earning an income without having to pay off massive loans.

Strick, great points about loans and rising education costs. The big drivers of increasing tuition and other costs are lower state spending on public education and administrative bloat. Of course, income inequality exacerbates all of these issues. A full-time job plus loans barely cover tuition and expenses for students who don't have help from their parents. Of course, those students need a college education the most and would benefit the most from earning a degree.

As far as this "unemployable majors" stuff, I'm not sure what the argument is. Are people arguing that engineering majors don't have any trouble paying off student loans but philosophy majors do? That's ridiculous. College loans are expensive for everyone who has them. Blaming people who aren't interested in STEM or business or going to law school for the student loan crisis ignores all the social, political, historical, and economic factors that have led up to this point. In effect, you all are blaming young people for not having the advantages you had 20, 30, 40 years ago. They're working much harder than we ever had to just to keep pace. And all you have for them is disrespect. I'm a big fan of college students nowadays. So much of them work full-time and go to college full-time and have family responsibilities all the while knowing they're entering a workforce designed to keep them struggling.

Honestly, I don't understand why people on a college sports message board seem to have such disdain for higher education and educators. It's a consistent theme here. I'm not sure if it has to do with rising anti-intellectualism or what. Why did you all even bother to go to Wake, a liberal arts school? Plenty of you come from money, so going to Wake didn't give you an advantage you wouldn't have had otherwise. If you didn't have money, you could have learned a trade and made a good living for yourselves and been part of this cohort of men in their 50s and 60s in manufacturing that we're having a tough time replacing.

 

[deacvision7]

Bunch of miserable assholes around these parts. Holy fuck.

I did not expect to read what I have over the past 85+ posts, but well done, OGB, you surprised me again!

 

[deacvision7]

scooter, I'm sure I don't have to explain that the campus tour isn't going to show you the everyday struggles of college students. I'm sure they didn't take you by the food pantry or by the parking lot where kids are sleeping in their car because they can't afford rent or on campus housing.

Here's an article from today featuring some work by a friend of mine at Temple.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/real-cost-school-first-generation-college-students-n1007796





Strick, great points about loans and rising education costs. The big drivers of increasing tuition and other costs are lower state spending on public education and administrative bloat. Of course, income inequality exacerbates all of these issues. A full-time job plus loans barely cover tuition and expenses for students who don't have help from their parents. Of course, those students need a college education the most and would benefit the most from earning a degree.

As far as this "unemployable majors" stuff, I'm not sure what the argument is. Are people arguing that engineering majors don't have any trouble paying off student loans but philosophy majors do? That's ridiculous. College loans are expensive for everyone who has them. Blaming people who aren't interested in STEM or business or going to law school for the student loan crisis ignores all the social, political, historical, and economic factors that have led up to this point. In effect, you all are blaming young people for not having the advantages you had 20, 30, 40 years ago. They're working much harder than we ever had to just to keep pace. And all you have for them is disrespect. I'm a big fan of college students nowadays. So much of them work full-time and go to college full-time and have family responsibilities all the while knowing they're entering a workforce designed to keep them struggling.

Honestly, I don't understand why people on a college sports message board seem to have such disdain for higher education and educators. It's a consistent theme here. I'm not sure if it has to do with rising anti-intellectualism or what. Why did you all even bother to go to Wake, a liberal arts school? Plenty of you come from money, so going to Wake didn't give you an advantage you wouldn't have had otherwise. If you didn't have money, you could have learned a trade and made a good living for yourselves and been part of this cohort of men in their 50s and 60s in manufacturing that we're having a tough time replacing.

100,000!!!!


I HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN TRACKING BUT HE POSTED RIGHT BEFORE I DID SO I NOTICED!!!

 

[DeaconCav06]

No, it's a skill set that transfers well to taking the LSAT. Whether it transfers well to law school, or actually being a lawyer, is a completely different issue.

You’re right. Logic and the ability to structure arguments aren’t a good skill set for lawyers to have. My mistake.

 

[Biff Tannen]

100,000!!!!


I HAVEN'T EVEN BEEN TRACKING BUT HE POSTED RIGHT BEFORE I DID SO I NOTICED!!!

 

[WRS]

I like to envision all lawyers being like the ones in the show “Suits” where they do research for like 5 minutes before landing upon some genius insight and winning/losing is primarily dictated by how many lines one is willing to cross by way of blackmail, perjury, fabrication of evidence, etc.

 

[deacvision7]

No, it's a skill set that transfers well to taking the LSAT. Whether it transfers well to law school, or actually being a lawyer, is a completely different issue.

Why do you insist on being consistently wrong about fucking everything on a message board? Like does it get your hard or something? You freak.

 

[Shorty]

scooter, I'm sure I don't have to explain that the campus tour isn't going to show you the everyday struggles of college students. I'm sure they didn't take you by the food pantry or by the parking lot where kids are sleeping in their car because they can't afford rent or on campus housing.

Here's an article from yesterday featuring some work by a friend of mine at Temple.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/real-cost-school-first-generation-college-students-n1007796





These aren't "broke college students." Those "broke college students" in the 70s, 80s, and 90s likely didn't work 20+ hours a week much less full time. They could devote more time to finishing in 4 years and earning an income without having to pay off massive loans.

Strick, great points about loans and rising education costs. The big drivers of increasing tuition and other costs are lower state spending on public education and administrative bloat. Of course, income inequality exacerbates all of these issues. A full-time job plus loans barely cover tuition and expenses for students who don't have help from their parents. Of course, those students need a college education the most and would benefit the most from earning a degree.

As far as this "unemployable majors" stuff, I'm not sure what the argument is. Are people arguing that engineering majors don't have any trouble paying off student loans but philosophy majors do? That's ridiculous. College loans are expensive for everyone who has them. Blaming people who aren't interested in STEM or business or going to law school for the student loan crisis ignores all the social, political, historical, and economic factors that have led up to this point. In effect, you all are blaming young people for not having the advantages you had 20, 30, 40 years ago. They're working much harder than we ever had to just to keep pace. And all you have for them is disrespect. I'm a big fan of college students nowadays. So much of them work full-time and go to college full-time and have family responsibilities all the while knowing they're entering a workforce designed to keep them struggling.

Honestly, I don't understand why people on a college sports message board seem to have such disdain for higher education and educators. It's a consistent theme here. I'm not sure if it has to do with rising anti-intellectualism or what. Why did you all even bother to go to Wake, a liberal arts school? Plenty of you come from money, so going to Wake didn't give you an advantage you wouldn't have had otherwise. If you didn't have money, you could have learned a trade and made a good living for yourselves and been part of this cohort of men in their 50s and 60s in manufacturing that we're having a tough time replacing.

Quoting to be part of history.

 

[mako1331]

scooter, I'm sure I don't have to explain that the campus tour isn't going to show you the everyday struggles of college students. I'm sure they didn't take you by the food pantry or by the parking lot where kids are sleeping in their car because they can't afford rent or on campus housing.

Here's an article from yesterday featuring some work by a friend of mine at Temple.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/real-cost-school-first-generation-college-students-n1007796





These aren't "broke college students." Those "broke college students" in the 70s, 80s, and 90s likely didn't work 20+ hours a week much less full time. They could devote more time to finishing in 4 years and earning an income without having to pay off massive loans.

Strick, great points about loans and rising education costs. The big drivers of increasing tuition and other costs are lower state spending on public education and administrative bloat. Of course, income inequality exacerbates all of these issues. A full-time job plus loans barely cover tuition and expenses for students who don't have help from their parents. Of course, those students need a college education the most and would benefit the most from earning a degree.

As far as this "unemployable majors" stuff, I'm not sure what the argument is. Are people arguing that engineering majors don't have any trouble paying off student loans but philosophy majors do? That's ridiculous. College loans are expensive for everyone who has them. Blaming people who aren't interested in STEM or business or going to law school for the student loan crisis ignores all the social, political, historical, and economic factors that have led up to this point. In effect, you all are blaming young people for not having the advantages you had 20, 30, 40 years ago. They're working much harder than we ever had to just to keep pace. And all you have for them is disrespect. I'm a big fan of college students nowadays. So much of them work full-time and go to college full-time and have family responsibilities all the while knowing they're entering a workforce designed to keep them struggling.

Honestly, I don't understand why people on a college sports message board seem to have such disdain for higher education and educators. It's a consistent theme here. I'm not sure if it has to do with rising anti-intellectualism or what. Why did you all even bother to go to Wake, a liberal arts school? Plenty of you come from money, so going to Wake didn't give you an advantage you wouldn't have had otherwise. If you didn't have money, you could have learned a trade and made a good living for yourselves and been part of this cohort of men in their 50s and 60s in manufacturing that we're having a tough time replacing.

PH keepin it One Hundo!!!!!!!! Congrats. Totally didn't read the post, though.

 

[2&2 Slider To Leyritz]

statistics disagree with you

I'm not sure how stats can measure how good of a lawyer someone is, but I'll never doubt millennials' ability to slap a questionable stat on something, put it on the internet, and believe it as fact.

 

[mako1331]

I'm not sure how stats can measure how good of a lawyer someone is, but I'll never doubt millennials' ability to slap a questionable stat on something, put it on the internet, and believe it as fact.

Hey, shut the fuck up about all this irrelevant shit and congratulate PH, you unappreciative bastard. 100K!!!!!!!!