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Caitlyn Jenner is here boys....

EatLeadCommie said:
Born one sex and changes to the other. Most people aren't going to consider having sex with somebody who changed sex to the one they are attracted to, so logically, people are going to have difficulties accepting Caitlyn Jenner as a woman. With his case it's particularly tough since he made his public mark as a man. But even in a run-of-the-mill case, people are going to have serious issues with it. I'm assuming she will work through that on her own and find people accepting of that fact. Probably won't head out to a bar, try to pick up someone, and never have the issue come up. I doubt she'll be acting out The Crying Game.

As for attributing it to a mental illness or disorder, I guess if you're more comfortable being stigmatized as a transsexual than one who is mentally ill/disordered, then go for it. The trans movement has hitched itself to the whole gay movement, so I can see why it's agreeable to ride the coattails of acceptance there rather than actually pondering the brain miswiring involved with it, but that just kicks the can down the road. There is quite clearly something mental with it all, and dismissing it because "it doesn't hurt anybody" is just short-sided thinking. This just assumes there is something to "fix" and I would guess that many transgender folks would take serious issue with that. If you could medicate it like you can with ADHD, then that would seem to be a much more agreeable option than wearing drag or going to even further extremes. More agreeable for who? You?...so you don't have to be grossed out by it? I can tell you I wouldn't want to be medicated to become someone I didn't feel was me. Moreover, once you cross that line and get a sex change, your sphere of acceptance becomes even smaller. How many guys are going to want to marry a guy who was born a guy and vice versa? I'm assuming people who are open minded and OK with that sort of thing, or attracted to that. Again, why does that matter to you? You're making arguments like you're thinking of what is best for the TG person, when no one asked you to solve how they are going to date or get married. How many would even want to date? (Note: I have learned in the last 6 mos that an old friend of mine apparently has a thing for trannies. Whether pre or post op, I don't know, but if you are one and you live in Chicago, you've probably slept with him).

Some will say, "If we could medicate it, don't you think we would?" To that I say the field has been taboo for years. How much funding do you think goes to the wiring of transsexual brains? How much drug research? And again, nobody has addressed the very real issue of sex change surgery likely originating as just a way to bury the issue of aberrant sexuality further into the closet. That this has become an acceptable standard of care is very likely a result of the same intolerance that many of you get worked up about. So TG people either have to keep their parts and "pretend" to be the other sex and risk violence or hatred from people, or go through the sex change to appease others? Chew on that for a while and come back to me with a thoughtful response. Otherwise, spare me the simplistic, millennial line of thinking.
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I really don't understand what you are arguing FOR, other than to "fix" the sickos so you don't have to think about it, or risk hitting on one.
 
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DeaconSlim2.0 said:
I really don't understand what you are arguing FOR, other than to "fix" the sickos so you don't have to think about it, or risk hitting on one.
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If it's something that can be medicated, it should be. The alternative is to set yourself up for a harsher life than is necessary. The number of people "open minded and OK with that sort of thing" is about as inconsequential as the % of TG roaming the earth. Even people who are on board with TG issues aren't likely to knowingly shack up with one. We medicate everything else in this country to make life easier, but for some reason we don't want to attempt to find a pharmaceutical solution for this particular issue either because it isn't financially attractive or because people are too afraid to step on that issue, or more likely a mix of both. So in the name of political-correctness, we actually refuse to medicate an obvious mental condition. We accept the same solution that was first implemented in 1930s Germany. There quite clearly is something to fix, otherwise so many wouldn't go about fixing it via surgery. Quit hitching being TG to being gay, because they clearly aren't the same thing. Same ballpark with weird outfield dimensions, but not the same thing.
 
EatLeadCommie said:
If it's something that can be medicated, it should be. The alternative is to set yourself up for a harsher life than is necessary. The number of people "open minded and OK with that sort of thing" is about as inconsequential as the % of TG roaming the earth. Even people who are on board with TG issues aren't likely to knowingly shack up with one. We medicate everything else in this country to make life easier, but for some reason we don't want to attempt to find a pharmaceutical solution for this particular issue either because it isn't financially attractive or because people are too afraid to step on that issue, or more likely a mix of both. So in the name of political-correctness, we actually refuse to medicate an obvious mental condition. We accept the same solution that was first implemented in 1930s Germany. There quite clearly is something to fix, otherwise so many wouldn't go about fixing it via surgery. Quit hitching being TG to being gay, because they clearly aren't the same thing. Same ballpark with weird outfield dimensions, but not the same thing.
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I think it's incredibly disrespectful of you to claim to know what's best for someone and that we should all decide this is an "obvious mental condition" and medicate these people into completely different people.

That's just absurd that you feel that way, and it seems absolutely no different than people thinking you can send homosexuals to psychiatrists and "fix" them.

Maybe have your friend if he can ask one of his partners if they would want to medicate their brain to force them to become someone completely different.


Given the choice of making your brain match your body or your body match your brain, I would guess most would rather their body match their mind.
 
DeaconSlim2.0 said:
I think it's incredibly disrespectful of you to claim to know what's best for someone and that we should all decide this is an "obvious mental condition" and medicate these people into completely different people.

That's just absurd that you feel that way, and it seems absolutely no different than people thinking you can send homosexuals to psychiatrists and "fix" them.

Maybe have your friend if he can ask one of his partners if they would want to medicate their brain to force them to become someone completely different.


Given the choice of making your brain match your body or your body match your brain, I would guess most would rather their body match their mind.
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So was it incredibly disrespectful of that first doctor in Nazi Germany to claim to know that cutting off the Schwanz was the right course of action? You just don't want feelings to be hurt, or don't want to feel further marginalized than one already is by virtue of being TG. That's a bullshit argument and ignores the issue. Everybody could use that defense for anything that they deemed offensive or hurtful. And what do you mean brain match your body or body match your brain? As I said, we medicate nearly every goddamn thing in this country already. Why? So a person's brain will match up what is considered to be a normal person's brain. It's about brain/brain normalcy, not brain/body. You can argue over the severity of the mental ailment and whether it's akin to ADHD or bipolar disorder of schizophrenia, and I can certainly understand why one would want to downplay the mental aspect of it so as not to be lumped into the category of legitimately insane. But I'm not saying anybody should be locked up for lunacy. I'm saying something is amiss in the brain's wiring to make a person feel that way. Given the progress we have made in treating seriously severe mental illnesses over the years (but particularly since the 70s), it would seem to me that if we had been trying to medicate TGs since 1930 instead of lopping off their dicks, that maybe society and TGs would be in a better place than we are now.
 
The respect I had for Junebug's intelligence has just flown out the window. The difference between gender and sex is like day 1 of Women's and Gender Studies, but you clowns with your careers and advanced degrees can't seem to wrap your heads around such a simple concept.
 
I was just thinking yesterday the most annoying posters on this thread are the people who seem to need to say over and over theres a difference between gender and sex. No one cares
 
palmab03 said:
I was just thinking yesterday the most annoying posters on this thread are the people who seem to need to say over and over theres a difference between gender and sex. No one cares
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You sure seem to care.
 
As soon as someone finds a way to fit in that correlation does not imply causation it would complete the liberal arts catchphrase circle jerk
 
EatLeadCommie said:
So was it incredibly disrespectful of that first doctor in Nazi Germany to claim to know that cutting off the Schwanz was the right course of action? You just don't want feelings to be hurt, or don't want to feel further marginalized than one already is by virtue of being TG. That's a bullshit argument and ignores the issue. Everybody could use that defense for anything that they deemed offensive or hurtful. And what do you mean brain match your body or body match your brain? As I said, we medicate nearly every goddamn thing in this country already. Why? So a person's brain will match up what is considered to be a normal person's brain. It's about brain/brain normalcy, not brain/body. You can argue over the severity of the mental ailment and whether it's akin to ADHD or bipolar disorder of schizophrenia, and I can certainly understand why one would want to downplay the mental aspect of it so as not to be lumped into the category of legitimately insane. But I'm not saying anybody should be locked up for lunacy. I'm saying something is amiss in the brain's wiring to make a person feel that way. Given the progress we have made in treating seriously severe mental illnesses over the years (but particularly since the 70s), it would seem to me that if we had been trying to medicate TGs since 1930 instead of lopping off their dicks, that maybe society and TGs would be in a better place than we are now.
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The fact that you're trying to make TG people like everyone else so they "fit" just proves you're over your head.

TG people in their mind and emotions and all of that, FEEL like they are the opposite sex. They feel like based on every thought and emotion that it is their BODY that is betraying their MIND, not the other way around. So they (some, not all) would rather have an operation so their body matches what their mind and heart think and feel every day. They (most, not all) would much rather go that route than to force their brain chemistry to match their body and become something/someone they are not, especially just to appease dimwits who are "grossed out" by the whole thing.

You want to make them all "like" everyone else, they want to make themselves how they feel they have always BEEN based on their thoughts, emotions and feelings.

You want to appease (and affect) "the majority", while they want to appease (and affect) only themselves.
 
I think he should have his penis sliced down the middle and removed on TV. They could just keep the camera on his face like they did when Katie Couric got the colonoscopy. Have a big lead-in with the doctors, some graphics, maybe have Dr. Phil there to chastise the skeptical people and the critics. It would educate everyone on the procedure and help de-stigmatize it, and it would be a ratings jackpot!
 
DeaconSlim2.0 said:
The fact that you're trying to make TG people like everyone else so they "fit" just proves you're over your head.

TG people in their mind and emotions and all of that, FEEL like they are the opposite sex. They feel like based on every thought and emotion that it is their BODY that is betraying their MIND, not the other way around. So they (some, not all) would rather have an operation so their body matches what their mind and heart think and feel every day. They (most, not all) would much rather go that route than to force their brain chemistry to match their body and become something/someone they are not, especially just to appease dimwits who are "grossed out" by the whole thing.

You want to make them all "like" everyone else, they want to make themselves how they feel they have always BEEN based on their thoughts, emotions and feelings.

You want to appease (and affect) "the majority", while they want to appease (and affect) only themselves.
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hang on dude. One can be grossed out by it and still not be a dimwit or intolerant. Your passion for this is a little overwrought, just like everyone screaming at anyone who is taken aback by all this. This is relatively new shit, and for a lot of people it is shocking and odd.

Scrutiny is not intolerance.

I dig that you want to fight the good fight, but not everyone is going to instantly buy into all this as if its nothing. Bruce Jenner is gone, its as if he died. He was a hero to America during the cold war, and he has bid adieu and left the world. Let people come around to this....
 
Junebug said:
What makes you think I don't understand the difference in sex and gender?
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Well, for starters you don't seem to understand the point of sexual reassignment surgery, comparing it to a person who wants to chop their arm off. Were you to wake up with tits tomorrow I'm sure you wouldn't feel any want or need to have them removed, because that would just be crazy.
 
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RChildress107 said:
Apparently ELC thinks women should try counseling to fix their body image issues rather than get a boob job. Smaller boobs, more dicks. To each their own.
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I like how a wholesale sex change operation is somehow on par with a boob job according to your theory of relativity.

When people get so many facelifts they look like a cat, we tend to judge them as mentally awry. When people start getting body modification to the point where they resemble a shark with sharp teeth or a reptile, we tend to think of them as a bit off. So yeah, it would seem logical that if somebody changed their sex by removing their sex organs that they would also be deemed a little bit nutso. We already assign mental disorder status to those who would feel happier if they cut off their leg, but apparently we can't do that here.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
The respect I had for Junebug's intelligence has just flown out the window. The difference between gender and sex is like day 1 of Women's and Gender Studies, but you clowns with your careers and advanced degrees can't seem to wrap your heads around such a simple concept.
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Wtf is gender studies?
 
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