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CBSSports.com Top 100 College Bball Players

KA, you do realize that a ton of players returned because there wasn't going to be a season this year don't you? This year's draft will have 175% of the star potential of a typical draft.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
KA, you do realize that a ton of players returned because there wasn't going to be a season this year don't you? This year's draft will have 175% of the star potential of a typical draft.
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Yes of course, though a lot of players still left. Pretty sad that even with that being the case, there still aren't that many true stars. There might be a lot of players that will be good in the NBA, but not many really good all-around college basketball players.
 
It's a season preview, folks. The player rankings are projections. Travis is a glaring omission, but Strickland is a good defender and starting SG for UNC, Henson is one of the best defensive big men in the NCAA, and Ryan Kelly is poised to have a big year now that Kyle Singler's gone.

Also, Thomas Robinson averaged 19.9 points and 16.8 rebounds per 40 minutes pace adjusted last year. That's insane. Here's some context explaining why. He was also far more versatile than your average collegiate 6th man and happens to stand 6'9 with a 7'0 wingspan and elite athleticism.

CBS might even look silly for ranking him at #6, especially below Sullinger, Jones, Holloway, and Taylor. I think that Barnes is positioned just about right. Damn.
 
I'm guessing Robinson won't be playing 40 mpg this year either.

He'll probably put up numbers because it's not like Kansas has an abundance of other options by their standards. And he'll be a really good rebounder and defender. But I imagine he'll find the sledding a little tougher without Morrises. And much like Henson, his free throw shooting is embarrassing, so he's not going to help himself much there.
 
This year of college basketball has the best talent in quite a while because more kids stayed in school. Most of the list is made up of juniors and seniors, not the freshmen and sophomores like people tend to think.
 
KanhojiAngre said:
I'm guessing Robinson won't be playing 40 mpg this year either.
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That's why I added it. It's a fairly accurate predictor, though (more so than simply adjusting statistics, pace-blind, over 40 minutes). If you look at the names on those stats lists, it's impressive collegiate company.
 
Unpredeactable said:
Mckie's omission is an egregious error to say the least. There are only 12 players from the ACC, 9 of which play for UNC and Duke.

Durand Scott, CJ Leslie, and Mike Scott are the other ACCers.
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Interesting. Think Lorenzo Brown might be better than CJL this year. Think he's still a year away from really harnessing that raw potential and athleticism that he has.
 
tintinisahottie said:
Interesting. Think Lorenzo Brown might be better than CJL this year. Think he's still a year away from really harnessing that raw potential and athleticism that he has.
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I agree.

Also, I don't know who wrote it, but for Virginia to be an NCAA team this year, KT Harrell is probably going to have to retroactively crack this list, too.
 
tintinisahottie said:
Interesting. Think Lorenzo Brown might be better than CJL this year. Think he's still a year away from really harnessing that raw potential and athleticism that he has.
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i agree. Lobrown is going to be their pg i believe, and there were several instances last year where he proved to be a better distributor than Harrow
 
KanhojiAngre said:
Yes of course, though a lot of players still left. Pretty sad that even with that being the case, there still aren't that many true stars. There might be a lot of players that will be good in the NBA, but not many really good all-around college basketball players.
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Jared Sullinger? Harrison Barnes? Perry Jones? Terrence Jones? Jeremy Lamb? Robbie Hummel? Not to mention the most talented freshman class in years.

ETA: I'm not sure what to make of your comment about being a good "all-around" college basketball player, because it leaves you alot of wiggle room. John Wall was one of the best players in recent memory, and led the ncaa in turnovers, so you could argue that he doesn't fit your criteria.
 
KanhojiAngre said:
Yes of course, though a lot of players still left. Pretty sad that even with that being the case, there still aren't that many true stars. There might be a lot of players that will be good in the NBA, but not many really good all-around college basketball players.
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You're absolutely wrong about this year. This is a renaissance year for college basketball. The NCAA hasn't been this talented and exciting in a long time. Last years national championship team is more talented and deeper, and isn't even expected to make the championship game.

Returning Players who are stars: Jared Sullinger, Harrison Barnes, Terrance Jones, Ashton Gibbs, Robbie Hummell, Jordan Taylor, Perry Jones, John Jenkins, Tim Abromitus and on and on and on.

Incoming Freshman who will be stars: Anthony Davis, Austin Rivers, Andre Drummond
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
You're absolutely wrong about this year. This is a renaissance year for college basketball. The NCAA hasn't been this talented and exciting in a long time. Last years national championship team is more talented and deeper, and isn't even expected to make the championship game.

Returning Players who are stars: Jared Sullinger, Harrison Barnes, Terrance Jones, Ashton Gibbs, Robbie Hummell, Jordan Taylor, Perry Jones, John Jenkins, Tim Abromitus and on and on and on.

Incoming Freshman who will be stars: Anthony Davis, Austin Rivers, Andre Drummond
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Sullinger is easily the best returning player. Barnes was inconsistent and inefficient but if improved would be valuable. Still, I think I like Zeller better off that team -- guy just doesn't do very much wrong and does a lot right.

Jordan Taylor is a fabulous player who plays for one of my favorite coaches. But I don't think he's as good as Devin Harris who played in the same system and was picked in the draft in about the same place as he's put on this list. So to me that's an indication of weakness, considering Harris wasn't a "potential" pick when he was drafted.

But two people who will be picks based on potential are both named Jones: Terrance Jones is unreliable in his effort, much like Perry Jones. Both are great athletes, but neither are aggressive enough and seem to think they can coast on their talent. I'm not even sure P. Jones would be my first pick of tall people named Jones at Baylor. Anthony Jones is a heckuva college player. Gary Parrish is a crack-smoker if he thinks Perry Jones is leading anything. The team's seniors -- Acy and Anthony Jones -- might, but I doubt that too. If they can improve the amount of time they stay on the court, guys further down the list like Josh Smith, Tarik Black and Festus Ezeli would be guys I'd like less to see opposing my favorite team than Perry Jones. Jamichael Green too probably, though I actually cannot remember having seen him play (most of the non-FR major-conference guys on this list I have, plus some smaller school guys).

Ashton Gibbs is a one-trick pony but he's really good at that one trick, I will grant. Compare his numbers to #60 rated Doron Lamb on the draftxpress page linked (which I agree is useful, but you have to consider that no one plays 40 minutes and most don't come close).

I love Robbie Hummel but have no idea how he'll come back after injury again. I've already mentioned that I really like Jenkins.

Tim Abromaitis...lol. Wasn't even as good last year as he was as a soph.

Here's what I really look at though. Is anyone on that list likely to be as good at guard as Kemba Walker was? Or Kyrie Irving would have been had he been healthy all year? I don't think there is anyone. Taylor will be very productive but some of that has to do with playing for an outstanding coach. Jenkins is an off guard, so you're telling me no worse than the 3rd best lead guard is a guy that averaged 6 a game last year? From this list, one could deduce that either this panel has no respect for guys who like to pass the ball or good players who pass well are almost extinct. And you've got guys listed in the top 20 despite being "sleepers" or guys that need to "break out" yet? Weak.

Some of the best post guys were Derrick Williams, Jon Leuer, JaJuan Johnson, and Marcus Morris. They were all good scorers, rebounders and passers, and all were solid even well into the midrange and beyond. Sullinger has the quality to be in that class. Jones won't be -- doesn't rebound enough, turns it over too much. Henson won't be, mediocre on offense. Maybe Anthony Davis will be. I've mentioned how much I like Zeller, but wonder if he'll get as many shots as he should with Barnes on his team. I like Draymond Green a lot too, if he becomes a bit more efficient on offense he could suddenly become one of the most important and omnipresent players in the country.

If you look at per 40 pace adjusted, WVU's Casey Mitchell was one of the leading scorers in major college basketball last year too. So not buying this Thomas Robinson stuff just yet. Robinson's gonna have to cut back on his fouls, which will probably also cut back on his rebounding, if he's going to be a starter this year. So we'll see I guess. But for such a spectulative pick to be rated as high as he is, again, indicates weakness. I'd put a chip on Travis Relaford to be KU's leading scorer considering the odds I'd get.

I agree that McKie should be on this list.
 
KanhojiAngre said:
Sullinger is easily the best returning player. Barnes was inconsistent and inefficient but if improved would be valuable. Still, I think I like Zeller better off that team -- guy just doesn't do very much wrong and does a lot right.
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Barnes is UNC's best player, and it's really not close. He was inconsistent until Marshall took over at the point and was ridiculous for the rest of the season. His season was the antithesis of Terrence Jones' year, which started out on fire and then cooled off dramatically once Brandon Knight took control of the team. As for Sullinger being the best returning player, that too is debatable, although he should be unstoppable as he's slimmed down and is used to the college game.
 
I don't know why I even respond to you anymore, Kahoji. Harrison Barnes was easily the 2nd best player in America by January, once Carolina got a decent point guard. Terrance Jones had 9 rebounds a game, which is plenty, considering he was in the same frontcourt as the SECs leading rebounder, and his ast/turnover ratio was perfectly normal for a PF who handles the ball. I don't feel like further delving into your post, especially the 1.5 paragraphs on Kansas, just know that you are definitely being a contrarian in this thread. You lack appreciation for elite athleticism (a key for exciting basketball, unless you're BKF), and you are very short sighted in your assumption that effort doesn't increase dramatically from freshman to sophomores (it does).
 
Unpredeactable said:
Barnes is UNC's best player, and it's really not close. He was inconsistent until Marshall took over at the point and was ridiculous for the rest of the season. His season was the antithesis of Terrence Jones' year, which started out on fire and then cooled off dramatically once Brandon Knight took control of the team. As for Sullinger being the best returning player, that too is debatable, although he should be unstoppable as he's slimmed down and is used to the college game.
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Sullinger was one of the best players in the country *last* year, and should be better this. He was easily the best freshman that's coming back.

Barnes vs. Zeller, reasonable people can disagree, but I love Zeller's efficiency, plus the fact that for a big guy he's really mobile and can run the floor. He'll likely be one of the most efficient scorers in the major conferences this year. On kenpom last year he was ranked 72nd, but at a quick glance the only major college guys ahead of him in offensive rating that will be back are Gibbs, Denmon, Jenkins, Rotnei Clarke and Sullinger. Obviously, most of those guys are perimeter gunners banking on 3 > 2, which I totally support. But basically, the only positional peer to Zeller in offensive ability last year that will play this year was Sullinger. He is obviously not the rebounder Sullinger is, but one would expect he's gotten stronger and should be better in that department this year.

If you use true shooting, then you're looking at Anthony Jones and Miami's Reggie Johnson ahead of him among big guys. Kenpom's leaders only go to 100 and Zeller was 139, so there may be a couple others ahead of him, but not many.

Barnes still had several strugglers in the last dozen games or so.

For the season, Barnes averaged 15.7 ppg and 5.8 rpg on 42% shooting and 75% FT.
Zeller was also at 15.7 with 7.2 rpg on 55% shooting and 76%FT.

In league play, Barnes went to 15.9 ppg and 5.5 rpg on 43% shooting and 76% FT.
Zeller averaged 14.5 ppg and 6.5 rpg on 58% shooting and 73% FT.

Barnes scored more but didn't improve as much in his shooting percentage. Zeller shot quite a bit better but didn't get as many opportunities. The declines in rebounding for both are pretty predictable considering bigger teams and players often dominate overmatched small conference opponents.

I think there's definitely room for reasonable people to disagree on who will be better of the two.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I don't know why I even respond to you anymore, Kahoji. Harrison Barnes was easily the 2nd best player in America by January, once Carolina got a decent point guard. Terrance Jones had 9 rebounds a game, which is plenty, considering he was in the same frontcourt as the SECs leading rebounder, and his ast/turnover ratio was perfectly normal for a PF who handles the ball. I don't feel like further delving into your post, especially the 1.5 paragraphs on Kansas, just know that you are definitely being a contrarian in this thread. You lack appreciation for elite athleticism (a key for exciting basketball, unless you're BKF), and you are very short sighted in your assumption that effort doesn't increase dramatically from freshman to sophomores (it does).
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Yeah, JaJuan Johnson and Derrick Williams weren't athletic at all.

There is no way in the world that Barnes was the #2 player in the nation last year. None.

Kemba Walker, Derrick Williams, Kyrie Irving...Barnes isn't even close to those guys. And there was some guy named Fredette that scored 33 a game in the NCAA tournament even though the rest of his team was trash. Barnes isn't even in the zip code.

Athleticism is absolutely the most overrated attribute in basketball. West Virginia made the Final Four with their top rebounder being a guy that projected as a 2/3 in the league. Despite that they managed to be beasts on the glass and play really solid defense. They were beaten by a Duke team that didn't boast a bunch of jump-out-the-gym guys either (Singler, Scheyer, Zoubek, Smith, Plumlees, Thomas). Nothing more common than guys that can run and jump but aren't really very good basketball players if you want your team to, ya know, win.

The guys that become stars in the NBA are usually the few athletic players that combine basketball skills and smarts with that athletic ability. Or they are pituitary freaks.
 
KanhojiAngre said:
Sullinger was one of the best players in the country *last* year, and should be better this. He was easily the best freshman that's coming back.

Barnes vs. Zeller, reasonable people can disagree, but I love Zeller's efficiency, plus the fact that for a big guy he's really mobile and can run the floor. He'll likely be one of the most efficient scorers in the major conferences this year. On kenpom last year he was ranked 72nd, but at a quick glance the only major college guys ahead of him in offensive rating that will be back are Gibbs, Denmon, Jenkins, Rotnei Clarke and Sullinger. Obviously, most of those guys are perimeter gunners banking on 3 > 2, which I totally support. But basically, the only positional peer to Zeller in offensive ability last year that will play this year was Sullinger. He is obviously not the rebounder Sullinger is, but one would expect he's gotten stronger and should be better in that department this year.

If you use true shooting, then you're looking at Anthony Jones and Miami's Reggie Johnson ahead of him among big guys. Kenpom's leaders only go to 100 and Zeller was 139, so there may be a couple others ahead of him, but not many.

Barnes still had several strugglers in the last dozen games or so.

For the season, Barnes averaged 15.7 ppg and 5.8 rpg on 42% shooting and 75% FT.
Zeller was also at 15.7 with 7.2 rpg on 55% shooting and 76%FT.

In league play, Barnes went to 15.9 ppg and 5.5 rpg on 43% shooting and 76% FT.
Zeller averaged 14.5 ppg and 6.5 rpg on 58% shooting and 73% FT.

Barnes scored more but didn't improve as much in his shooting percentage. Zeller shot quite a bit better but didn't get as many opportunities. The declines in rebounding for both are pretty predictable considering bigger teams and players often dominate overmatched small conference opponents.

I think there's definitely room for reasonable people to disagree on who will be better of the two.
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fair enough, I think Zeller is and has always been underrated, as he carries himself pretty quietly. I would put money on Barnes being one of the best players in college this season, although I could be wrong.
 
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