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Chat Thread - Lectro Busy Biting His MyPillow !

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WRS said:
I’m not very educated on the logistics of a university’s finances so can someone explain how Wake Will factors into the overall picture. It seems like the campaign has been very successful to date. I realize that not all that money flows into the school right away but where does it go? Directly to infrastructure projects? Scholarship funds? Endowment? Just curious from someone who knows more about the subject.
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The last time the university actually did press about how they were spending Wake Will $, it was in 2016 when they hit the $600m mark:


Funds raised to date have provided:

$174 million for student scholarships and financial aid, enabling the creation of 300 new scholarships and 327 new student aid funds;
$66 million to recruit and retain best-in-class faculty, including the completion of 10 Presidential endowed chairs;
$152 million for academic and campus life programs, such as 30 new funds supporting academic departments; and
$133 million for buildings and capital enhancements, enabling a wave of renovation and construction activity not seen since the Reynolda Campus was built in 1956.

That last line item likely means they're capitalizing all the stuff you call infrastructure projects. That's good, and a reason Wellman and Hatch get credit for being good at building buildings.

Without seeing cash flow statements, it's impossible to know how they're actually reporting anything. I do know they're over $900m as of January (some updated figures here) towards reaching the $1b goal.
 
Say Hey Deac said:
In their defense, there's no way to plausibly explain such a terrible decision. They can't come out and say, "the buyout is too big to fire Manning," but they have to say something. Thus, nothing statements about how "the foundation is being built" and Manning doing things the right way. I actually feel bad for the PR folks, because they're stuck trying to defend the indefensible.
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PR spin is basically about transparency, owning up, creativity, and showing a way forward. Or you could just like, not give a shit about your shareholders. That's another way of handling it.
 
Thanks Townie. I figured that as a private institution details would be scarce but it’s helpful to have some general direction on the use of funds. I knew they were closing in on the stated goal of $1B hence the curiosity.
 
I'm not totally sure how the AD does PR. I think it's separate from the Uni, though they will often consult on big things. When Wellman had his public support of Bz halftime talk tour, that was apparently prompted by outside consultation, amazingly. Not sure how they fucked that up so bad, but that advice did not come from direct Wake employees and Wellman had to be convinced to do it because, again, he didn't see anything wrong with what was going on. Sounds like not much has changed/improved.

I guess looking at the directory, it falls under Strategic Communications (?), but what I heard was that they hired out for that particular campaign so they may be using some consulting group or something. Beats me.
 
It does seem ridiculous that a top 30 school where the majority of the fan base has graduated from are told that only a 70 year old gym teacher from Ohio can possibly understand things and to just trust them. The real sad part is it worked for years.
 
El Chupacabra said:
I'm not totally sure how the AD does PR.
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It absolutely does. The Office of Communications and External Relations is part of University Advancement and doesn't get involved with athletics past a Alumni mag story.
 
Strategic Comm group seems more like marketing from looking at their profiles. I guess it's Steve Shutt and that group, but it is a total cluster. I think they just have no clue.
 
you guys know what this means

time to change the organizational zeitgeist
 
TenaciousKory said:
It absolutely does. The Office of Communications and External Relations is part of University Advancement and doesn't get involved with athletics past a Alumni mag story.
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Yeah, and they'll consult with University Advancement on big things like that Good Morning America story fall out, but I don't think they have a dedicated "spinner" of news for just the AD. I think they are poorly equipped to control the message of this type of thing and just hope that since no one really cares about Wake, it won't matter.
 
Maybe the "hypothetical" where do you punch Ron Wellman? thread is over the line?
 
El Chupacabra said:
Yeah, and they'll consult with University Advancement on big things like that Good Morning America story fall out, but I don't think they have a dedicated "spinner" of news for just the AD. I think they are poorly equipped to control the message of this type of thing and just hope that since no one really cares about Wake, it won't matter.
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again, i don't know how these things work at wake, but external comms should be a funnel for anything that goes out to the wider world from your organization from the tiniest press release or social post to good morning america
 
TownieDeac said:
Brace yourselves for some corporate speak here, but Wake Forest is a business. On the RACI chart for Wake athletics, Ron Wellman is responsible for the operations of his department, but we have a board of trustees and university president who are accountable. When the buyout deal, which I have to speculate required board signoff as it would require a significant PO, was put before the board, Wellman should have been laughed out of the room for dereliction of fiduciary responsibility.

That clearly didn't happen, so either

1) The board is full of sycophants or old and disinterested people. From the few I'm familiar with that sit on our board, this could be the case.
2) Wake's athletic budget is separate from the University's, and is run at Wellman's sole discretion. I'd find this extremely hard to believe.
3) Wellman laid out his plan and put his reputation on the line to give Danny more time, and the board asked him to retire this year when it fell apart.

Regardless, Currie has been dealt a completely shitty hand. For what should be a cushy lifetime gig at Wake, he now has a fanbase that has been completely turned off and a flagship program burning cash and goodwill. Wake is still a good enough academic institution that we shouldn't let athletics steer the business into the ditch like this. But from what I can see of how the rest of the school operates, it doesn't seem to be headed in a better direction anywhere else either. We're just lining up in the facilities and administrative arms race alongside everyone else with no plans to make the school more inclusive or accessible or to improve its academic reputation. That our endowment hasn't substantively grown since the economic recovery should say a lot, even if this is a time of capital investment.

Dire times.
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Being a private school, I don't know how it works at Wake as I don't believe that information is available, but in the UNC system, the institutions' Boards of Trustees approve the contracts of athletics directors and head coaches. I would assume Wake Forest's Board of Trustees has the same duty, although, again, I don't think Wake's BOT bylaws are published anywhere, so I don't know.

To the extent the Wake BOT does approve such contracts, I suspect they mostly defer to the President and AD regarding the financial terms, as the President and AD, unlike the BOT members, would be in a position to know the market and what is reasonable compensation. The trustee who runs a private gas development company in his day job probably isn't gonna know whether the field hockey coach should be paid $80,000 or $120,000. In this case, especially because Wellman has been around forever, I suspect the individual BOT members gave great deference to Wellman. I think it's also likely correct that the athletic budget is really a separate enterprise from the rest of the university budget (i.e., it's a mistake to look at the $1B Endowment and think those are unrestricted funds available to be used to buyout a basketball coach), so even less incentive to closely scrutinize and evaluate the compensation. Ultimately you hire executives whose judgment you can trust when it comes to those types of business terms.

Anyway, whatever. That should be our slogan for next basketball season.
 
TenaciousKory said:
It absolutely does. The Office of Communications and External Relations is part of University Advancement and doesn't get involved with athletics past a Alumni mag story.
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oh, so things no one cares about. great use of resources
 
TownieDeac said:
again, i don't know how these things work at wake, but external comms should be a funnel for anything that goes out to the wider world from your organization from the tiniest press release or social post to good morning america
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I know a bit how these things work because I interned in CER for a few years and the internal politics are p crazy.

Then I worked external comms at a Tenn. school and my whole job was stopping academic departments from circumventing us with whatever style/communication they dreamed up in their head. I *saw* some awful stuff there.
 
Chat Thread - Into the Spider-Mett-Verse !

TownieDeac said:
Brace yourselves for some corporate speak here, but Wake Forest is a business. On the RACI chart for Wake athletics, Ron Wellman is responsible for the operations of his department, but we have a board of trustees and university president who are accountable. When the buyout deal, which I have to speculate required board signoff as it would require a significant PO, was put before the board, Wellman should have been laughed out of the room for dereliction of fiduciary responsibility.

That clearly didn't happen, so either

1) The board is full of sycophants or old and disinterested people. From the few I'm familiar with that sit on our board, this could be the case.
2) Wake's athletic budget is separate from the University's, and is run at Wellman's sole discretion. I'd find this extremely hard to believe.
3) Wellman laid out his plan and put his reputation on the line to give Danny more time, and the board asked him to retire this year when it fell apart.

Regardless, Currie has been dealt a completely shitty hand. For what should be a cushy lifetime gig at Wake, he now has a fanbase that has been completely turned off and a flagship program burning cash and goodwill. Wake is still a good enough academic institution that we shouldn't let athletics steer the business into the ditch like this. But from what I can see of how the rest of the school operates, it doesn't seem to be headed in a better direction anywhere else either. We're just lining up in the facilities and administrative arms race alongside everyone else with no plans to make the school more inclusive or accessible or to improve its academic reputation. That our endowment hasn't substantively grown since the economic recovery should say a lot, even if this is a time of capital investment.

Dire times.
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Good post.

When you read comments from W-SJ and Demon Deacon Sports Nation on Facebook, you see how they can get away with this. I imagine plenty of folks on campus aren’t removed enough to see how bad things are either.
 
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TownieDeac said:
The last time the university actually did press about how they were spending Wake Will $, it was in 2016 when they hit the $600m mark:


Funds raised to date have provided:

$174 million for student scholarships and financial aid, enabling the creation of 300 new scholarships and 327 new student aid funds;
$66 million to recruit and retain best-in-class faculty, including the completion of 10 Presidential endowed chairs;
$152 million for academic and campus life programs, such as 30 new funds supporting academic departments; and
$133 million for buildings and capital enhancements, enabling a wave of renovation and construction activity not seen since the Reynolda Campus was built in 1956.

That last line item likely means they're capitalizing all the stuff you call infrastructure projects. That's good, and a reason Wellman and Hatch get credit for being good at building buildings.

Without seeing cash flow statements, it's impossible to know how they're actually reporting anything. I do know they're over $900m as of January (some updated figures here) towards reaching the $1b goal.
Click to expand...

I said this earlier, maybe on here, but we went to a Wake Will event in like Feb 2016 and they were handing out little cards showing where each area of the university was W/R/T their funding goals. All were behind except Athletics, which had blown past its target.
 
Say Hey Deac said:
Being a private school, I don't know how it works at Wake as I don't believe that information is available, but in the UNC system, the institutions' Boards of Trustees approve the contracts of athletics directors and head coaches. I would assume Wake Forest's Board of Trustees has the same duty, although, again, I don't think Wake's BOT bylaws are published anywhere, so I don't know.

To the extent the Wake BOT does approve such contracts, I suspect they mostly defer to the President and AD regarding the financial terms, as the President and AD, unlike the BOT members, would be in a position to know the market and what is reasonable compensation. The trustee who runs a private gas development company in his day job probably isn't gonna know whether the field hockey coach should be paid $80,000 or $120,000. In this case, especially because Wellman has been around forever, I suspect the individual BOT members gave great deference to Wellman. I think it's also likely correct that the athletic budget is really a separate enterprise from the rest of the university budget (i.e., it's a mistake to look at the $1B Endowment and think those are unrestricted funds available to be used to buyout a basketball coach), so even less incentive to closely scrutinize and evaluate the compensation. Ultimately you hire executives whose judgment you can trust when it comes to those types of business terms.

Anyway, whatever. That should be our slogan for next basketball season.
Click to expand...

So a mix of option 1 and option 2. In the case of a "separate budget" rather than just a different GL line on the whole university budget (still separate from the endowment), you'd still expect an eight figure contract buyout clause to get direct scrutiny even if trustees aren't in a good place to determine market value. That's different than an 80k salary vs 120k salary, that's a significant % of your operating budget.
 
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