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Hodge05 said:
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Wisconsin will open up in the next 5 years and that is without question a better job.
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Yeah, I'm hoping Bennett doesn't get interested in that job when Bo retires.
 
YoungBuck95 said:
You should've stopped after the first sentence. What're they doing now?
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Because Bo Ryan is the most underrated coach in the country, not because Wisconsin offers significant structural advantages (eg Kentucky).

I mean look at what they did before Bo and especially before Bennett.
 
Lurker, that's what I said. Maybe they will listen to you.

If I was guessing, if Bo doesn't have a logical successor, Tony Bennett is their #1 , #2, #3 and #4 target. I'd be very surprised if he doesn't go home to WI when Bo retires.
 
Dan's article is brutal. He knows Manning is a junk candidate and way below even an average hire for Wake. He is trying to prevent the hire with the power of ink barrels and the internet. Go Dan. Go!
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Way below average hire for Wake? Our last five head coaches that we've hired:

Jeff [name redacted] - 7 college HC seasons, 111-105 college record (51%), 0-1 NCAAT record
Dino Gaudio - 0 college HC seasons
Skip Prosser - 8 college HC seasons, 165-78 college record (68%), 1-4 NCAAT record
Dave Odom - 3 college HC seasons, 37-43 college record (46%)
Bob Staak - 6 college HC seasons, 88-86 college record (51%), 0-1 NCAAT record

Danny Manning - 2 college HC seasons, 38-29 college record (57%), 0-1 NCAAT record
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I disagree with using "the "average coach" (or "the average player" for that matter) over such a long period of time as a baseline for expectations - it's absurd. It's as appropriate to use that to base your expectation of what a new basketball hire should look like in 2014, as it is to base your expectation of what a leadoff hitter should look like in 2014 based on "the average leadoff hitter" in the last 30-odd years (stolen bases were the benchmark for 20-odd years, now the emphasis is on OPS because it's more predictive of value) or "the average NBA center" in the last 30-odd years (height used to be the benchmark characteristic, now the emphasis is on viewing Cs like PFs and looking at their offensive and defensive efficiency regardless of size because it's also more predictive of value).

Here are the last 4 decades of ACC HC hires in arguable order of current basketball program prestige:

All ACC HC Hires in the 1980s:
Duke: Mike Krzyzewski (73-59 @ Army)
Maryland: Bob Wade (No previous NCAA HC experience - was successful HS coach at Dunbar and rival of Lefty Driesell who was hired after Driesell got scapegoated for Len Bias's death); Gary Williams (59-41 @ Ohio State)
Wake Forest: Bob Staak (88-86 @ Xavier); Dave Odom (38-42 @ East Carolina/previous HC experience was three seasons)
NC State: Jim Valvano (94-45 @ Iona)
GaTech: Bobby Cremins (100-70 @ App. State)
Clemson: Cliff Ellis (171-84 @ South Alabama)

Judged by today's ACC standards, these guys' résumés look pretty LOWF.

All ACC HC Hires in the 1990s:
UNC: Roy Williams (401-101 @ Kansas)
Virginia: Jeff Jones (No previous HC experience, took job after Terry Holland left to take A.D. position @ his alma mater/Davidson); Pete Gillen (72-53 @ Providence)
NC State: Les Robinson (81-70 @ East Tennessee State); Herb Sendek (63-26 @ Miami/previous HC experience was three seasons)
Florida State: Steve Robertson (46-18 @ Tulsa/previous HC experience consisted of two seasons at Tulsa!)
Clemson: Rick Barnes (108-76 @ Providence); Larry Shyatt (19-9 @ Wyoming/previous HC experience was one season)

New coaches clearly had higher qualifications than the previous decade of new hires.

All ACC HC Hires in the 2000s:
Virginia: Dave Leitao (58-34 @ DePaul/previous HC experience was three seasons); Tony Bennett (69-33 @ Washington State/previous HC experience was three seasons)
Wake Forest: Skip Prosser (125-60 @ Xavier); 2007: Dino Gaudio (hadn't been a HC in 7 years - had spent the previous 7 years as an assistant coach)
NC State: Sidney Lowe (No previous HC experience - Lowe had spent 2 years as an NBA assistant on the heels of a [name redacted]-like 79-228 NBA HC record as HC for MIN, VAN, and MEM)
Miami: Frank Haith (No previous HC experience - Haith had spent the previous 15 years as an NCAA assistant coach)
GaTech: Paul Hewitt (66-27 @ Siena/previous HC experience was three seasons)
Florida State: Leonard Hamilton (144-147 @ Miami)
Clemson: Oliver Purnell (155-116 @ Dayton)

New coaches had arguably similar as or slightly higher qualifications than the previous decade of new hires.

All ACC HC Hires in the 2010s:
Maryland: Mark Turgeon (97-40 @ Texas A&M)
Wake Forest: Jeff [name redacted] (36-58 @ Colorado)
NC State: Mark Gottfried (210-131 @ Alabama)
Miami: Jim Larrañaga (273-164 @ George Mason)
GaTech: Brian Gregory (172-94 @ Dayton)
VaTech: James Johnson (No previous HC experience - Johnson had spent the previous 5 seasons as an assistant coach); Buzz Williams (139-69 @ Marquette)
Boston College: Steve Donahue (146-138 @ Cornell)
Clemson: Brad Brownell (84-45 @ Wright State)

New coaches have significantly higher qualifications than the previous decade of new hires.

While Ron Wellman and Jeff [name redacted] have savaged the value of the Wake Forest basketball program, I'd like to think that it's slightly mitigated by the still relatively recent successful legacies of Skip Prosser, Dino Gaudio, and all of the players we've successfully sent up to the NBA and Euroleague. That point's arguable I suppose. Anyway, the last 4 decades show that a more reasonable, and more accurate, expectation baseline for the new hire should be predicated on where we see Wake relative to the composition/quality of the rest of the conference's coaches, not "the average Wake hire." The fact that Wellman has given coaches like Grobe/Lobotzke and [name redacted] the coaching lifespan equivalent of banana republic "Presidents for Life" makes me pause until I start to pass out before I even begin to consider basing my expectations of a prospective hire for Wake revenue sport's on average quality confined to Wake Forest rather than looking to the rest of the ACC.

TLDR: The "average hire for Wake" is a waste of time baseline we don't need to keep arguing about (there are much clearer bases from which to identify someone else as LOWF than this too), the ACC's been trending upward for 4 decades/when the tide rises all boats rise, the baseline for our expectations should be premised on where we see post-[name redacted] Wake relative to the rest of the ACC's basketball programs with recently hired or brand-new head coaches.
 
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cookoutdeac said:
Deleted all of the posts not bumping/supplying information (after my previous announcement). If you want to discuss with RJ his stance on Bzzout then do it over PMs. I'll continue to delete posts in this thread that aren't meeting the requirements set forth.

It's not possible to lock and allow thread starter to make posts/update or I'd just do that. So just stop being #dense and making cleanup necessary.
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I guess cookout gave up.
 
Wellman, [Redacted], and media outlets have torched the "successful legacies of Skip and Dino."
 
RJKarl said:
If it hasn't happened in DECADES why would it rise like the phoenix? Wake has had better results in W-S (about 3% of the the size of Chitown) than IL had had in Chicago. We've kept two NBA All Stars at home. They haven't kept any.
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Over the past five years, Illinois has been in ESPN's top-25 recruit rankings four times. Wake Forest has been in the top-25 twice over the same timespan.
 
WFUWaldo said:
Over the past five years, Illinois has been in ESPN's top-25 recruit rankings four times. Wake Forest has been in the top-25 twice over the same timespan.
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Bz was a terrible recruiter. That's just a sampling error.
 
WFUWaldo said:
Over the past five years, Illinois has been in ESPN's top-25 recruit rankings four times. Wake Forest has been in the top-25 twice over the same timespan.
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four of those five years, Wake Forest was being led by one of the worst coaches in Atlantic Coast Conference history.
 
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