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Comparison of Coron Williams to CJ

Who's to say what Travis would be doing at either of those programs.

Are there fair criticisms of Travis? Of course. Have those criticisms changed much over the past 3 years? not really. It just seems odd to attack him now, especially after all he has done for the program.

This is and has been the point from the start. DCDeac's contrarian cross to bear nonwithstanding, this is and has always been the point raised on multiple threads by dv7, rchildress, and I, specifically because the inevitable scapegoating of Travis was, for lack of a better word, inevitable.
 
Are you kidding? You don't know why people would criticize Travis? He was a 4 star recruit, top 10 at his position coming to Wake. His Scout profile said he had tremendous upside, high major prospect, and noted he needed work on ball handling and developing inside. Now he's our only senior and you're praising him for taking a back seat to Cavanaugh? He still can't handle the ball and has no inside game. He disappears frequently in big games. His level of effort routinely doesn't pass the eye test.

You guys rip Cav all year last year as non-ACC caliber but Travis regresses and it's undeserving of criticism or it's understandable because [Redacted] is to blame?

The criticism is fair. The guys ranked one spot above and below him in 2010? One is averaging 17 and 7 at Stanford, the other 19 and 6 at Florida. A "good coach" would game plan Travis to only take 5 shots a game? And that's meeting his expectations? You guys are taking crazy pills.

This is easily one of your worst posts ever. Feel free to read my posts on this matter and get back to me about what I've actually said.

For one, I have always been one of the few Cav supporters on this board. That was "before he was good," too. That's also because I was one of the few people on here that saw him tear up a really competitive AAU field in the summer that Coleman went down. Save your over generalizations for someone else. My issue regarding Cav always that [Redacted] failed to play to his strengths and it showed. The combination of this changing and him maturing physically have really made a good deal of difference as I posted earlier on a few threads throughout the season and even on this thread.

Criticizing a guy, like Travis, who is a known commodity as a high schooler because he hasn't panned out like you would expect from an elite prospect (eschewing the fact that he was RSCI #56, BTW) is more in line with your brand of post-hoc "I told you so"-isms than it is with me. Never have I seen a fanbase so eager to dump on a kid than Wake and you're among the most gleeful in doing so. I've followed basketball recruiting as a fan and professionally since 2003, and I can't tell you how many guys would be thrilled to rack up Travis's career production considering the turns their careers, relative to the field, have taken.

Travis was an RSCI top-75 recruit and he's playing like one, a 4-year starter averaging double figures for a high major basketball team.

Here's the 2010 RSCI:
http://www.draftexpress.com/RSCI/2010/

Just ask James Bell, Gerard Coleman, and Mychal Thompson if they think Travis has had a bad career... If you give me the option of KT Harrell, Casey Prather, Anthony Brown (all of whom are actually shooting guards, technically) and Travis McKie (who was and still is a combo-forward), then I'll take Travis every time. And Travis would have had the same trouble getting minutes that Prather did if he had played on a team 1/10 as talented as Florida. We'll see how Prather, Anthony Brown, and Harrell keep up with those numbers, but something tells me that they'll all end up pretty similar by the time it's all said and done. By the way, nice #samplesizedeac. Also, I see how you conveniently left out Rion Brown, Jordan Sibert, Okaro White, Dom Ferguson and our very own JT Terrell as a means of proving a point that just isn't valid given the data.

Has Travis underwhelmed relative to what he showed us as a freshman? Yes. But plenty of posted have offered reasons for why what we saw from Travis as a freshman might have been the product of a lot of pieces falling into place rather than some goldmine of untapped potential. I'm perfectly willing to accept building him up too much as a fan, and I'm sure if you asked writers at nbADraft.net, espn, and DX they'd have similar responses.

Has he taken a back seat to Cavanaugh? I don't know if players can make that call. What I've seen is that Cavanaugh and Moto are once again getting looks that seem like they're the outcome of [Redacted]'s offense. Add to that the fact that CMM and Devin at both better at creating on the perimeter and in the post, respectively, and I'd say (in addition to the possession splits and numbers that you conveniently ignore) that Travis's lack of aggressiveness coupled with his gradual demotion in the presence of other options (both guys that our staff is creating looks for and players better suited at finding their own) has resulted in a temporary drop in numbers.

I can tell you one thing, though. Travis's "demise" hasn't really surprised anybody that I've talked to, whether they be Wake insiders, basketball analysts, or NBA scouts. Outside of his freshman season and his standout performance at LeBron camp awhile back, Travis's expectations have been managed (and overinflated) by our fanbase (particularly by the sunshine brigade to, now ironically, show how [Redacted] can develop talent in years two and three) and our fanbase alone.
 
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Y'all are ridiculous arguing about Travis. He is the exact same player he was when he stepped foot on campus with less drive and ostensibly little desire to improve in his areas of weakness. He had above-average success three years ago on one of the worst Wake teams in history. Big deal! Perhaps he realizes he has failed to realize expectations and potential and is willing to defer to the more talented youth and accept a supporting role on a somewhat improved team compared to last year.
 
Y'all are ridiculous arguing about Travis. He is the exact same player he was when he stepped foot on campus with less drive and ostensibly little desire to improve in his areas of weakness. He had above-average success three years ago on one of the worst Wake teams in history. Big deal! Perhaps he realizes he has failed to realize expectations and potential and is willing to defer to the more talented youth and accept a supporting role on a somewhat improved team compared to last year.

And yet you contribute to the ridiculous argument? You're making my point for me, though, so thank you for that... The only difference is that I have no skin in the game of blaming, shaming, or denigrating Travis as a human or as a basketball player for not being who we thought he was... Like I pointed out, the guy has had a solid career given the career trajectories of players in his RSCI ranking range in 2010 and, if anybody would be willing to do the research, over the past 10 years...
 
Who said I was arguing? Its an easy conclusion to reach. I don't care how you arrived at yours or the same. It's a pissing match over nothing about a good kid who has been a disappointing player relative to expectations. I'm sorry if you think Im trying to hurt his feelings. I thought that's what you guys were good at? Or at least what y'all enjoy doing from the comfort of your keyboard? But I'd tell you to your face that we're better off without Travis. Just not his. Carry on I guess. I haven't really read the last few short novellas over-analyzing this matter. Im just here for the jokes about Ronnie and Bzzdick.
 
Coron is a little better three point shooter than CJ. Whereas CJ was a better scorer and could create his own shot. Neither is ever going to be confused with Dennis Johnson as a defensive player.

Coron is a classic sixth man. CJ is more of a leader.
 
Travis is more efficient this year than he has ever been. He also doesn't turn the ball over at a very high rate, while providing decent passing for his position, as well as performing pretty well on the defensive end. I've said it a lot: Travis is the glue guy third or fourth option on a good team. He's been providing this and he will continue to provide this. The problem is people think he will be contributing 20 and 15 a game while dominating which isn't his style at all.
 
Who said I was arguing? Its an easy conclusion to reach. I don't care how you arrived at yours or the same. It's a pissing match over nothing about a good kid who has been a disappointing player relative to expectations. I'm sorry if you think Im trying to hurt his feelings. I thought that's what you guys were good at? Or at least what y'all enjoy doing from the comfort of your keyboard? But I'd tell you to your face that we're better off without Travis. Just not his. Carry on I guess. I haven't really read the last few short novellas over-analyzing this matter. Im just here for the jokes about Ronnie and Bzzdick.


This. I have no idea what's up with the inane crusade against fair criticism of Travis's development at Wake. Nobody's "trashing" or "shaming" or "denigrating" Travis. This is not a controversial topic.
 
...... Are dumb.

Oh sorry I thought we were supposed to complete the sentence from the thread title.

CJ is so much better than Coron it is silly.
 
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