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Conference Expansion: Stanford, California and SMU Join the ACC

redwing42 said:
I would hope that for many schools, part of the $15-20M would come from a suppression of the highest salaries at the school, most of whom got those salaries because the media money was available. Coaches and top level administrators could take a 20% cut and make up a large portion of that shortfall.
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Lol
 
So you say
"First, there are plenty of examples of spending less on students as the students become more diverse. College education was free or heavily subsidized until colleges and universities became heavily integrated. Then the cost of education skyrocketed because all of a sudden white people were against "handouts." College education is incredibly expensive now that white students only about half of college undergradates in the US.

So now you are saying that college is only incredibly expensive now because POC are going to university at a greater rate than they used to? To me, that is a prime example of looking for a racial basis for every issue.
I don't know about college being "free or heavily subsidized" - maybe I am just unaware? But, the rapid escalation of the cost of college education has a lot of causes - I don't believe the racial makeup of the student body is one of them.
Supply and demand is probably the biggest factor. A college education increasingly became a perceived requirement for success. That, combined with the rise in population of college aged kids (kids of the baby boomers), created a huge glut of kids wanting to go to college. Add to that the easy access to college grants and loans and now you have colleges everywhere competing for those kids and that easy money. That lead to the arms race in programs and amenities. In a generation you went from college kids living a spartan lifestyle on campus to living a lavish one. All of this lead to the current problem of kids saddled with huge college loans. Maybe that whole system was race-based and I just don't see it?
At the same time colleges saw a huge increase in administrative bloat - further increasing costs.
 
I don’t know if you’re being intentional obtuse. Race as A factor doesn’t mean it’s the ONLY factor. It’s hard to have a legit conversation with someone who thinks race wasn’t a factor in late 20th century higher education.
 
scooter84 said:
So you say
"First, there are plenty of examples of spending less on students as the students become more diverse. College education was free or heavily subsidized until colleges and universities became heavily integrated. Then the cost of education skyrocketed because all of a sudden white people were against "handouts." College education is incredibly expensive now that white students only about half of college undergradates in the US.

So now you are saying that college is only incredibly expensive now because POC are going to university at a greater rate than they used to? To me, that is a prime example of looking for a racial basis for every issue.
I don't know about college being "free or heavily subsidized" - maybe I am just unaware? But, the rapid escalation of the cost of college education has a lot of causes - I don't believe the racial makeup of the student body is one of them.
Supply and demand is probably the biggest factor. A college education increasingly became a perceived requirement for success. That, combined with the rise in population of college aged kids (kids of the baby boomers), created a huge glut of kids wanting to go to college. Add to that the easy access to college grants and loans and now you have colleges everywhere competing for those kids and that easy money. That lead to the arms race in programs and amenities. In a generation you went from college kids living a spartan lifestyle on campus to living a lavish one. All of this lead to the current problem of kids saddled with huge college loans. Maybe that whole system was race-based and I just don't see it?
At the same time colleges saw a huge increase in administrative bloat - further increasing costs.
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Many state legislatures reduced state payments to their state colleges, no matter how you want to measure. Dollars. Inflation adjusted dollars. Percent of college budget. Percent of state budget. Dollars per student.
 
We are getting a bit distracted here talking about other race issues in education. We have a situation where a country with a prominent history of racism is taking monies from teams more comprised of POC and giving it to programs more comprised of white student athletes. This is pretty clear. Given everything we know, thinking this is just some completely innocent coincidence is absurd. I mean, "holy fucking shit, are you serious???" absurd. If this isn't obvious to you, you are absolutely fucking stupid or just choosing to be blind to this dynamic.
 
PhDeac said:
I don’t know if you’re being intentional obtuse. Race as A factor doesn’t mean it’s the ONLY factor. It’s hard to have a legit conversation with someone who thinks race wasn’t a factor in late 20th century higher education.
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Don't change my argument. I didn't say race wasn't "a factor in late 20th century higher education". What I did say was that the tremendous increase in the cost of higher education was not caused or contributed to by the fact that more people of color were attending college - and I believe that.
 
Tobacco Road said:
We are getting a bit distracted here talking about other race issues in education. We have a situation where a country with a prominent history of racism is taking monies from teams more comprised of POC and giving it to programs more comprised of white student athletes. This is pretty clear. Given everything we know, thinking this is just some completely innocent coincidence is absurd. I mean, "holy fucking shit, are you serious???" absurd. If this isn't obvious to you, you are absolutely fucking stupid or just choosing to be blind to this dynamic.
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Since we are resorting to insults now I think you are a fucking idiot who looks for race-based monsters under every bed. There may be schools in the northern US where most of the athletics revenue is brought in by ice hockey - a sport dominated by white guys. Are you saying those schools would not use excess revenue from hockey to support their other athletic programs - many of which are likely dominated by POC? I just think that is absurd.
 
scooter84 said:
Don't change my argument. I didn't say race wasn't "a factor in late 20th century higher education". What I did say was that the tremendous increase in the cost of higher education was not caused or contributed to by the fact that more people of color were attending college - and I believe that.
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Just because you believe something doesn't make it factually correct.


scooter84 said:
Since we are resorting to insults now I think you are a fucking idiot who looks for race-based monsters under every bed. There may be schools in the northern US where most of the athletics revenue is brought in by ice hockey - a sport dominated by white guys. Are you saying those schools would not use excess revenue from hockey to support their other athletic programs - many of which are likely dominated by POC? I just think that is absurd.
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LOL. Name some northern schools in which ice hockey is the dominant sport in which mostly BIPOC play non-revenue sports. You're coming up with crazy hypotheticals to counter a basic factual point.

Again, this country was founded on "race-based monsters." They're under the bed by default. You just don't believe in them probably because they protect you.
 
scooter84 said:
Since we are resorting to insults now I think you are a fucking idiot who looks for race-based monsters under every bed. There may be schools in the northern US where most of the athletics revenue is brought in by ice hockey - a sport dominated by white guys. Are you saying those schools would not use excess revenue from hockey to support their other athletic programs - many of which are likely dominated by POC? I just think that is absurd.
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And you are insulting our intelligence stretching to create crazy hypotheticals while ignoring the reality of what is happening/has happened. Feel free to show us those Northern schools making fists full of money and then turning around and spending it non-revenue sports for POC.
 
PhDeac said:
Just because you believe something doesn't make it factually correct.

- Same goes for you...

LOL. Name some northern schools in which ice hockey is the dominant sport in which mostly BIPOC play non-revenue sports. You're coming up with crazy hypotheticals to counter a basic factual point.
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I know it was a crazy hypothetical... Football is unique in creating all the revenue so there really isn't a good counter-example.

PhDeac said:
Again, this country was founded on "race-based monsters." They're under the bed by default. You just don't believe in them probably because they protect you.
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This is insulting and I really don't appreciate it. I know you are undepheated but you are not unassailable, no matter what you think. I realize all the same things that you do about the history of our country. I know that race has played a role in so many unfortunate things throughout the years. I know it has impacted higher education in so many ways.

I am simply pushing back on a narrow, specific point. I do not believe that the current structure or arrangement whereby football creates tremendous revenues for athletic departments via TV contracts, gate receipts, licensing, etc. - and that revenue is used to prop up all the non-revenue sports - is based on, encouraged by, or facilitated by the fact that football teams are majority black athletes and many (not all) non-revenue sports are majority white kids.

My belief is that the situation would have ended up exactly the same if the football players were predominantly white and the non-revenue athletes were predominantly black - assuming all other factors remained the same. I don't know how you would prove that either way. But, the fact that football players are mostly black and non-revenue athletes are mostly white does not prove anything about the motivation for the current financial arrangement.

I know I tend to be optimistic about my fellow man and his motivations but that is how I feel.

My feelings are similar on the rapid increase in the cost of higher education. It seems preposterous to me to believe that has been allowed the happen because more POC are going to college. I am no social scientist but there are a crapload of other, obvious and factual reasons for the increases - why look for a race-based reason?
 
I wonder if Cal and Stanford will have difficulty recruiting athletes in the future. As a Delta 3 mil miler I have made many, many, many cross country flights and hate them. Would you really want to join a bball team knowing you would be flying cross country every week or other week? It will get old even for 19 year olds.
 
WFU1977 said:
I wonder if Cal and Stanford will have difficulty recruiting athletes in the future. As a Delta 3 mil miler I have made many, many, many cross country flights and hate them. Would you really want to join a bball team knowing you would be flying cross country every week or other week? It will get old even for 19 year olds.
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It seems B1G athletes would have similar (though not quite as extreme) considerations, esp UCLA/USC. SEC wins again.
 
I’m not sure how you can know the history of this country and be optimistic about your fellow man. That doesn’t match.
 
What a terrible, misguided take. You need to read up on WWII and understand what white, black and brown Americans accomplished. Read the book on the Greatest Generation. Read up on IwoJima, or the Battle of the Bulge. You also don't seem to realize that 600,000 northern white boys died to end slavery. You should have a lot more confidence in your fellow man than what you chose to see.
 
WFU1977 said:
What a terrible, misguided take. You need to read up on WWII and understand what white, black and brown Americans accomplished. Read the book on the Greatest Generation. Read up on IwoJima, or the Battle of the Bulge. You also don't seem to realize that 600,000 northern white boys died to end slavery. You should have a lot more confidence in your fellow man than what you chose to see.
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After how many centuries of slavery? You want a thank you note?

And what about the southern white boys who died for slavery and the many many people who still today treat them as heroes?

And to bring it back to higher education, what happened to those "Black and brown Americans" who accomplished victories overseas? They came back here, and the state and federal governments denied them the path to a degree and the middle class that was laid out for white soldiers through initiatives like the GI Bill.

There is a long history of powerful wealthy white people using the labor of others to funnel money to their own children. Call it slavery, athletic scholarships, vouchers, it's never new. It's the same scheme over and over again. Learn real history and don't repeat it.
 
WFU1977 said:
You also don't seem to realize that 600,000 northern white boys died to end slavery.
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They "died" because other people killed them to try to preserve slavery. By the way, 600K is closer to the total Union and Confederate dead. I've noticed Conferderate fetishists like to do this-claim their own dead as people who died to end slavery.
 
WFU1977 said:
What a terrible, misguided take. You need to read up on WWII and understand what white, black and brown Americans accomplished. Read the book on the Greatest Generation. Read up on IwoJima, or the Battle of the Bulge. You also don't seem to realize that 600,000 northern white boys died to end slavery. You should have a lot more confidence in your fellow man than what you chose to see.
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You mean the Black men who had to serve in segregated units because they were believed to be inferior soldiers.

Or the ones who returned home to not be able to vote despite serving their country?

Or the ones who saw their white counterparts benefit from the GI bill while their opportunities paled in comparison?

Or the one who returned home to have their uniforms torn off of their bodies?

Is that what I need to read up on?
 
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