Danny Manning Credibility Watch

[awaken]

There were several members of the BOT who have a particular influence on the athletic department sitting on the wood next to Manning last night.

Absent an NCAA violation or some other Michigan State type of issue arising with the hoop program, WF can lose out, and DM is not going anywhere after this season. Even if Wellman were to retire at the end of the school year (and guessing that he would've announced it by now if that was in the works), the new AD would not be in a position to make a move with the basketball job until the end of next season at the earliest. Also, DM just signed a lengthy extension, and while the buyout language is not public, if it's anything like most Power V coaching contracts, there is a hefty buyout (which may be largest at the front-end of the deal) which WF must decide that it's willing to eat (other than Dino, which is a separate case, in recent history, WF does not fire a hoop or football coach with time left on the deal; WF typically lets the contract run-out - Bz, Grobe). Finally, since Manning will be coaching next year, getting the big donors and Hatch on board to can Manning with several years left on his deal, would require WF to continue awful play through the end of this year (possible), and to show no improvement next year (again, possible, but WF will have some decent talent in the fold next year, and DM did take a team to the NCAAs last year).

In sum, a lot has to happen before replacing Manning is even a possibility, and even then, it's not the WF way. So, people can bitch and moan about DM all they want, but nothing will change for quite awhile.

I agree we are stuck/screwed for the indefinite future. My kids grew up in the middle of this Bz/Manning mess and are not Deacon fans bc of it. Hard to get a little kid hooked on a loser. Even I cooled on the team during this time. I realize Wake Athletics just considers this so much collateral damage, but you'd thing the old$ would want to see the program turned around in their lifetime.

 

[Deaconblue]

Most of the newcomer Danny defenders are probably too young to remember the Les Robinson invitational, which was the 8/9 play-in game of the old (and true and correct) ACC tournament.

When does Tuesday of the new (bastardized) ACCT become the Danny Manning Invitational? This will be year four.

6 teams, about 1/3 of the league teams now play on the first day of the tournament. I wouldn't hold my breath for the nickname.

 

[diverdeac]

I agree we are stuck/screwed for the indefinite future. My kids grew up in the middle of this Bz/Manning mess and are not Deacon fans bc of it. Hard to get a little kid hooked on a loser. Even I cooled on the team during this time. I realize Wake Athletics just considers this so much collateral damage, but you'd thing the old$ would want to see the program turned around in their lifetime.

I agree as well. There is nothing but more frustration coming. It absolutely sucks. The question is will there be any juice left in the program after another couple years of this. I would be thrilled if it were different. I like DM but damn it just seems like the no fun program right now. I can't believe he's been as inept as he has been. Yes inept. I'm still in recovery over blowing the lead vs. Clemson and UVA last year. Geez. Then losing those games out of the gate. Inexcusable.

 

[CharlotteDeac1]

no

Yes we did make adjustments. To say otherwise just demonstrates that some can only see negative Manning actions and ignore the positives.

 

[birdman]

It’s a low bar indeed. But the fact that Manning routinely clears it makes comparisons to [Redacted] look foolish. We are back in the range of Wake Forest basketball during the 20 years preceding [Redacted], albeit on the mid-low end over the past two seasons.

Part of the reason [Redacted] sucked as much as he did is that he could not recruit or develop players like John Collins. I’m glad Manning can.

We've had one season on the lower end of the range of WFU BBall during 20 year period prior to Bz. Odom and Prosser's worst seasons at Wake are on par Manning's best. Not satisfactory, for me.

 

[Stormfury]

We've had one season on the lower end of the range of WFU BBall during 20 year period prior to Bz. Odom and Prosser's worst seasons at Wake are on par Manning's best. Not satisfactory, for me.

Amen! Those that defend it simply must have been too young or forgotten what it was truly like to be a WFU Bball fan...

 

[Milhouse]

We've had one season on the lower end of the range of WFU BBall during 20 year period prior to Bz. Odom and Prosser's worst seasons at Wake are on par Manning's best. Not satisfactory, for me.

Prosser’s worst year was pretty fucking bad

 

[WFU Lurker]

Did I really say that was the floor? Post Collins leaving? Yeesh.

The way I look at it is: with Chaundee this year we would be at least a top 20 team. Subtract Collins and add experience to a top 20 team and the floor should be the bubble.

Yeah, it does not age well. Interesting back-and-forth there if you click into the thread. I would claim victory, but for some reason I seemed to think that our post defense was going to be worse this year. Not exactly sure why that was.

 

[Deaconblue]

We've had one season on the lower end of the range of WFU BBall during 20 year period prior to Bz. Odom and Prosser's worst seasons at Wake are on par Manning's best. Not satisfactory, for me.

All games ACC
19-14 9-9
17-13 7-9
15-16 5-11
17-17 3-13

Four years out of the last two decades. Which one is the best? Who was the coach?

 

[birdman]

Prosser’s worst year was pretty fucking bad

We still won 15 games that year. Only really bad loss was to Air Force...ugh, that was the worst.

 

[birdman]

All games ACC
19-14 9-9
17-13 7-9
15-16 5-11
17-17 3-13

Four years out of the last two decades. Which one is the best? Who was the coach?

19-14, Manning was the coach. Fine, Manning's best year was slightly better than Prosser's and Gaudio's worst. It's still unsatisfying.

 

[RChildress107]

surely there were extremely few such people

I did not belong to this forum but I saw the billboard



I meant to exclude the Staak years

Skip had flaws, but no, he shouldn't have been fired

he finished first in the ACC by two games; he got to the Sweet 16; he re-energized the program; he had built up a reservoir of goodwill

I think you mean he rode an NBA all-star and an all-time great to an ACC regular season title and a sweet sixteen.

Without Josh Howard and Chris Paul Skip could barely clear the bar that would become [Redacted]! Am I doing it right?

 

[Deaconblue]

Amen! Those that defend it simply must have been too young or forgotten what it was truly like to be a WFU Bball fan...

Do you remember when the whole Wake Forest recruiting class was one player who was all region in Pennsylvania?

 

[thatguy2016]

I think you mean he rode an NBA all-star and an all-time great to an ACC regular season title and a sweet sixteen.

Without Josh Howard and Chris Paul Skip could barely clear the bar that would become [Redacted]! Am I doing it right?

no

no, you're not doing it right

I'll leave now

 

[knowell]

Wellman clearly has ultimate responsibility, but hiring DM was not an outrageous decision as was hiring Buzz and the initial mess.

It was. It was a giant risk at a time when Wake could not afford the risk. Manning was completely untested. I guess that is better than a guaranteed loser like BZ, but it was a giant gamble that predictably did not work out.

 

[knowell]

I agree we are stuck/screwed for the indefinite future. My kids grew up in the middle of this Bz/Manning mess and are not Deacon fans bc of it. Hard to get a little kid hooked on a loser. Even I cooled on the team during this time. I realize Wake Athletics just considers this so much collateral damage, but you'd thing the old$ would want to see the program turned around in their lifetime.

Same here. I used to take the kids to the game, but to what end? I had to buy them some gear just so they would not think the whole trip was a complete waste.

 

[knowell]

I think you mean he rode an NBA all-star and an all-time great to an ACC regular season title and a sweet sixteen.

Without Josh Howard and Chris Paul Skip could barely clear the bar that would become [Redacted]! Am I doing it right?

Is Manning family to you?

 

[RChildress107]

We've had one season on the lower end of the range of WFU BBall during 20 year period prior to Bz. Odom and Prosser's worst seasons at Wake are on par Manning's best. Not satisfactory, for me.

This is false:

Odom’s three worst

90: 12-16, SOS: 33rd, SRS*: 7.81 (66th)
98: 16-14, SOS: 6th, SRS: 9.63 (50)
99: 17-14, SOS: 34th, SRS: 9.80 (54)

Skip/Dino:

06: 17-17, SOS: 36th, SRS: 8.15 (68), KP: 80
07: 15-16, SOS: 7th, SRS: 6.08 (81), KP: 102
08: 17-13, SOS: 6th, SRS: 9.29 (81), KP: 73

Manning’s last 2:

17: 19-14, SOS: 26th, SRS: 14.19 (36), KP: 36
18: 9-13, SOS: 10th, SRS: 8.40 (78)

Wake averages under Odom/Skip/Dino:

19.33 wins and SRS: 14.27

[Redacted] best season:

14: 17-16, SOS: 57th, SRS: 5.49 (94), KP: 117

*SRS is basically RPI that considers margin of victory.

 

[RChildress107]

Amen! Those that defend it simply must have been too young or forgotten what it was truly like to be a WFU Bball fan...

Went to my first game in 92. I grew up during the best 20 year stretch Wake has ever had. I watched every game of the 06-07 team and this team would beat that one in a 7 game series.

 

[RChildress107]

I admit saying he "rode collins" probably wasn't the best word choice, he absolutely has helped Collins and Moore develop but that just isnt enough. To make the damn play in game one time in 4 years (and for that team to have the most efficient player in the country) is not a good track record as far as wins and losses go. And at the end of the day, wins and losses are what we judge by in sports and in coaches. I'm in the camp to give Danny next year but if the team does not have a dramatically different feel than this year and make the tournament then he has to go. Recruiting is great and all but if those recruiting efforts produce anything resembling what I've watched this year than what a damn waste of time.

Agreed.