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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

RJKarl said:
JJ was on a team where there were no minutes for him early in his career.

These guys didn't underperform at Wake. Their coach was abjectly incompetent. That team should have been unable to be defended and superior on D. There was no excuse for them not making at least the Sweet 16 and very probably a Final 4 with a decent draw.
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Dino wasn't the best coach in the world, but this no excuse stuff is nonsense. The 2012 Duke team had 5 NBA players on it (players who have played multiple seasons: Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee, Austin Rivers, Seth Curry, and Ryan Kelly), finished the season as the 19th best team in the country per Kenpom (vs 24th for 2009 Wake) and lost in the first round to 79th ranked Lehigh (vs 66th ranked Cleveland State). Is K abjectly incompetent? Upsets happen every year. It was obviously hugely disappointing and not a positive sign as far as Dino's coaching ability, but also wasn't the outright disaster some Wake fans make it out to be.

It would be interesting to compare the talent on the 2009-10 and 2016-17 rosters. Feels pretty similar actually, and the results were also relatively similar.
 
WFU Lurker said:
Dino wasn't the best coach in the world, but this no excuse stuff is nonsense. The 2012 Duke team had 5 NBA players on it (players who have played multiple seasons: Miles Plumlee, Mason Plumlee, Austin Rivers, Seth Curry, and Ryan Kelly), finished the season as the 19th best team in the country per Kenpom (vs 24th for 2009 Wake) and lost in the first round to 79th ranked Lehigh (vs 66th ranked Cleveland State). Is K abjectly incompetent? Upsets happen every year. It was obviously hugely disappointing and not a positive sign as far as Dino's coaching ability, but also wasn't the outright disaster some Wake fans make it out to be.

It would be interesting to compare the talent on the 2009-10 and 2016-17 rosters. Feels pretty similar actually, and the results were also relatively similar.
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you know what increases the chance of the better team getting upset? bad defense from the better team

Duke's two worst defensive teams over the last 18 years, by far, are the 2012 and 2014 teams. Ranked around 80th in the country. lost to Lehigh and Mercer in the first round.

We haven't had a defense in the top 100 since Dino was the coach
 
WFU Lurker said:
Duke had 3 on the All-ACC teams, Wake had 2.
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That's irrelevant. Who else was in the ACC in each period?

Ish vs. Seth Curry - Adv Wake
JT vs. Rivers- Adv Wake
James vs. Ryan Kelly - adv Wake
Farouq vs. either Plumlee -Adv Wake
Chas vs. other Plumlee -Adv Duke

Our D is much better. Our athleticism is superior.

I'm out of here for a couple of hours.
 
RJKarl said:
That's irrelevant. Who else was in the ACC in each period?

Ish vs. Seth Curry - Adv Wake
JT vs. Rivers- Adv Wake
James vs. Ryan Kelly - adv Wake
Farouq vs. either Plumlee -Adv Wake
Chas vs. other Plumlee -Adv Duke

Our D is much better. Our athleticism is superior.

I'm out of here for a couple of hours.
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Sure, our players were better in terms of raw athleticism. And, yes, our D was much better. But, of course a bunch of really talented freshmen and sophomores aren't going to run a half court offense as well as a bunch of a bit less talented (but still elite talent) seniors and juniors.

I will absolutely buy the argument we should have been better than we were in the regular season. And, obviously I am not contesting that our post-season performance was anything other than disappointment. But, what I am not going to relent on is the idea that any competent coach would have made the Sweet 16 with that roster. The NCAAT is about upsets. That's half the allure. And there have been bigger. Literally a few minutes before that Duke game, 7th best per Kenpom Missouri lost to 183rd best Norfolk State. I would contend, and I think most non Wake fans would agree with me, that both of those upsets were bigger shockers than the Cleveland State over Wake one.
 
Interesting to compare the 2016-17 and 2009-10 rosters:
Crawford vs Ish - push (Crawford had better stats, but Ish was steadier)
Woods vs CJ - adv 16-17
Arians vs LD - push (hard players to compare - obviously)
Dinos vs AFA - adv 09-10
Collins vs McFarland - adv 16-17

Results were very similar in terms of wins and losses, although KP likes the 16-17 team quite a bit more. I do think it was a more talented team though, if not as experienced.
 
WFU Lurker said:
Interesting to compare the 2016-17 and 2009-10 rosters:
Crawford vs Ish - push (Crawford had better stats, but Ish was steadier)
Woods vs CJ - adv 16-17
Arians vs LD - push (hard players to compare - obviously)
Dinos vs AFA - adv 09-10
Collins vs McFarland - adv 16-17

Results were very similar in terms of wins and losses, although KP likes the 16-17 team quite a bit more. I do think it was a more talented team though, if not as experienced.
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we lost to Cleveland State in spring 2009. Teague and JJ were on that team.
 
so:

Crawford vs. Ish - push
Woods vs. Teague - '09
Arians vs. AFA - '09
Dinos vs. JJ - '09
Collins vs. McFarland - '17

'09 bench Hale, Woods, Clark, Weaver
'17 bench Childress, Wilbekin, Moore

bench advantage '09
 
RChildress107 said:
No one is absolving blame for the 09 loss. He’s just pointing out that a one game sample size isn’t very helpful when judging a coach’s competence
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ok

Lurker,


why are you pointing out that a one game sample size isn’t very helpful when judging a coach’s competence when evaluating the '09 loss, then comparing the NEXT year's roster to anything?

no, I don't like the flow of that
 
wfu22fan said:
Maryland game in ACCT sucked almost as badly.
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and Miami
and FSU
and the UK beatdown
hey, we'll always have Texas

then again, Texas is one win out of 6 tournament games, and a one game sample size isn't very helpful when judging a coach's competence
 
lol at our usual offensive sets in crunch time. Typical garbage. Once again, the opposition closes on a significant run. This was a 12-4 run I believe.
 
It must be comforting for our opponents to know that if they can keep it close until about the 7 min mark, they'll win 9 times out of 10.
 
06deacon said:
It must be comforting for our opponents to know that if they can keep it close until about the 7 min mark, they'll win 9 times out of 10.
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And cover the spread with ease. Not that they care about that, but still...
 
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