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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

Prosser had 4 straight 20+ win seasons, including 5 NCAAT wins in his first 4 years at Wake. He also had a regular season title...Those are pretty hard to come by. He took a dip in year 5 with an NIT season and then an even worse season in year 6, while he was awaiting some top talent to come back in and bounce back.

Prosser also had all of the intangibles. The fans and students loved him, the Joel was rocking while he was here, the media loved him, other coaches loved him. He was an incredible man who won a lot of games at Wake and consistently brought in good talent. If you're going to grade Prosser on his only 2 bad seasons at Wake, then that would be considered a small sample size in my book.

you don't finish 3rd, 1st, 3rd, 2nd in the ACC your first four years unless you know what you're doing.
 
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donaldross said:
Small sample size? Gaudio only had 3 seasons. How about postseason success? Regular season? Any objective measure has Gaudio in the win column and Prosser not.
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please expand on Dino's postseason success, including the ACC tournament
 
Look, I loved Prosser as much as anyone but that postseason success was horrific. Gaudio had just won an NCAA tourney game when handed the door.

The point here is Wellman. The best two on paper coaches at Wake during his entire tenure were Odom and Gaudio. He hired neither and fired both. Wellman is horrific.
 
donaldross said:
Look, I loved Prosser as much as anyone but that postseason success was horrific. Gaudio had just won an NCAA tourney game when handed the door.

The point here is Wellman. The best two on paper coaches at Wake during his entire tenure were Odom and Gaudio. He hired neither and fired both. Wellman is horrific.
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1* NCAAT game that took an off balance, 1 outta 100 shot by Ish to only get smacked around in round 2.
 
And DR, if you really think Wellman fired Gaudio for his results on the court then you aren't as close to the program as you insist you are.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
And DR, if you really think Wellman fired Gaudio for his results on the court then you aren't as close to the program as you insist you are.
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duh-duh1233387823.jpg
 
donaldross said:
Look, I loved Prosser as much as anyone but that postseason success was horrific. Gaudio had just won an NCAA tourney game when handed the door.

The point here is Wellman. The best two on paper coaches at Wake during his entire tenure were Odom and Gaudio. He hired neither and fired both. Wellman is horrific.
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Skip win 5 NCAA tournament games in 6 years. Gaudio won 1 in 3 years. How are you arguing Gaudio's success was better?
 
CreamyGoodness said:
And DR, if you really think Wellman fired Gaudio for his results on the court then you aren't as close to the program as you insist you are.
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Where did I say either of those? Wellman made a bad decision firing Gaudio. That's what I said. I don't care why he did it. It was objectively wrong.

And since when am I out here saying I am "close to the program." I've read others say that. I'm certainly not on the same page with folks these days. Close to the program is probably the worst way to describe it. Utter disdain is better. If I'm "close" to any program it would be UNCG or Duke. I love Wake. But I don't love the people in charge right now. And they don't love me for speaking my mind. And that's just fine with both of us.
 
RJKarl said:
RE: Danny's four season:

Years 1&2 - We did about what was expected
Last Year - We greatly overachieved what was expected of our talent
This Year- Disappointing, we've underachieved
Next Year -The Dance or Danny should be fired.
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Year 1 & 2 - Quite disappointing. Who expected the trajectory to drop from the low level of BZ
Year 3 - finally on schedule again. Bubble team that sneaked into the play in game but played no defense while there
Year 4 - pretty tragic- first 5 games were BZ level or below.
Year 5 - hope is nice but not sure why some pretty decent freshmen are going to make a tournament run happen.

I like DM as a person but it does not usually take 5 years to have a pretty good idea what you have. BZ's incompetence was visible by discerning people almost from day 1.

Just don't think year 5 will be the magic year that turns everything around. We can hope though. Maybe DM can learn pack-line defense in the off season.

Keatts is an example of what a good first year looks like. There are others around the country. None of them look like what we have.
 
Why the Deac Not said:
So basically do in five years what Dave Odom did in 3 years. But Manning's defense, Crawford ain't quite Randolph Childress. i'm willing to give Danny the benefit of the doubt and see what he can do with ostensibly more talent in year 5. Had Collins stayed 3 years like RoRo, then we most certainly would have made the tourney this year (IMO). Although it is not out of the realm of possibility that we would have messed that up this year too. Everyone talks about Dinos and losing him, but I think Arians meant much more to our offensive efficiency from a year ago than Mitoglou ever did.

However, that denies the reality that Danny (and his assistants aren't above criticism here) continues to make many of the same puzzling decisions (or in some cases doesn't do anything at all) he's made since he took the reins of this program. We still can't play zone defense and while the defensive effort and rebounding has been better in the last several weeks, he still relies too heavily on the wrong players or wrong combo of players at many of the wrong times. That's not to say there isn't an obvious paucity of "clutch-ness" with respect to this team. But in the end the buck stops with Danny to make the moves that put the team in the best position to win at the end of games. And that isn't happening enough.
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You can't compare the squad GDO inherited to the one Danny had play with his first year. Danny has no one as good as King,Tucker, Ivy or Siler. Hell, would have killed to have a Derrick McQueen. Rodney was all but in the bag for Staak as well.
 
donaldross said:
Where did I say either of those? Wellman made a bad decision firing Gaudio. That's what I said. I don't care why he did it. It was objectively wrong.

And since when am I out here saying I am "close to the program." I've read others say that. I'm certainly not on the same page with folks these days. Close to the program is probably the worst way to describe it. Utter disdain is better. If I'm "close" to any program it would be UNCG or Duke. I love Wake. But I don't love the people in charge right now. And they don't love me for speaking my mind. And that's just fine with both of us.
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That's fair. I guess the only point I'm trying to make out of all of this is that Wake hasn't experienced loads of basketball success in our programs history. The fact that Skip won 5 NCAAT games, won a regular season title and finished top 3 in 4 seasons is success when looking at it from a history standpoint. I want more success, you want more success, we all want more success. Folks are working tirelessly to make this happen.
 
CreamyGoodness said:
That's fair. I guess the only point I'm trying to make out of all of this is that Wake hasn't experienced loads of basketball success in our programs history. The fact that Skip won 5 NCAAT games, won a regular season title and finished top 3 in 4 seasons is success when looking at it from a history standpoint. I want more success, you want more success, we all want more success. Folks are working tirelessly to make this happen.
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I just disagree with the last sentence. We have players working hard and a couple coaches. Manning is fat lazy and happy as you would expect with his NBA money. Our administration isn’t prioritizing hoops. We haven’t built the proper stadium since 1935. They are “working tirelessly” on football and soccer.
 
They might be working tirelessly (I question that) but they are not working smart and that's what matters.
 
Just a comment: Back at the time, maybe we were a bit spoiled by the degree of success we were enjoying. BUT, I recall, a bit hazy now, concerning a UNC-CH game, Larry Brown said, 'that is the worst coached basketball team I've ever seen". Many agreed. Wellman saw the indecision displayed during a crucial TO, and later Gaudio was fired. Gaudio didn't seem to be an all around high level head coach CEO material. But, things then got worse.
 
raldeac said:
Just a comment: Back at the time, maybe we were a bit spoiled by the degree of success we were enjoying. BUT, I recall, a bit hazy now, concerning a UNC-CH game, Larry Brown said, 'that is the worst coached basketball team I've ever seen". Many agreed. Wellman saw the indecision displayed during a crucial TO, and later Gaudio was fired. Gaudio didn't seem to be an all around high level head coach CEO material. But, things then got worse.
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Man, we probably could have gotten Larry Brown to come in and man the ship for a couple years post-Prosser or Gaudio. Would have been cool, and certainly would have produced light-years better results.
 
tigerswood said:
Man, we probably could have gotten Larry Brown to come in and man the ship for a couple years post-Prosser or Gaudio. Would have been cool, and certainly would have produced light-years better results.
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yeah that would have been awesome. We could have gotten probation out of the deal and everything.
 
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