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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

warak said:
mostly recruiting at this point. his player have great potential and we need to give him time to develop them. game coach is average at this point
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But we got killed in recruiting in 2016.
 
The only way that Manning shows "promise" is because he is still relatively young for a head coach.

Nothing measurable is all that promising, IMO.
 
deacvision7 said:
The only way that Manning shows "promise" is because he is still relatively young for a head coach.

Nothing measurable is all that promising, IMO.
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I think people assign a lot of value to his time as an NBA player and assume it makes him a better coach than he is, whether they realize they are doing it or not. The truth is that whatever value that experience adds has already been realized by now. It doesn't make his potential peak any higher. It likely just sped up the process of getting him to where he is. The truth is that being a great player is not as all a requirement to be a great coach and there's not a lot of evidence that it really even helps that much.
 
Sped up the process? He spent a decade at Kansas before getting the Tulsa job. How slow do you want the process to be?
 
oh good, this thread is still as completely fucking stupid as it was last year

good to see, good to see
 
DCDeac said:
Sped up the process? He spent a decade at Kansas before getting the Tulsa job. How slow do you want the process to be?
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That's a pretty typical timeline. Shaka was an assistant for ten years before he got his shot. Michael White for eleven years. Both were coaches longer at a low level before getting called-up to a top conference.
 
But they had to establish the connections and reputation a former NBA player and college all-time great shouldn't have to establish.
 
PhDeac said:
But we got killed in recruiting in 2016.
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We have Dino (soph) and JC (fr) at power forward, so we were going to have a tough time getting a 4 star PF. We got a 3 star who can also play small forward. We have DM(fr) at center and added another 4 star center. We have a freshman 4 star PG (Crawford) and added a 3 star PG who can really shoot the ball. We needed outside shooters and added one of the best outside shooters in the East and a transfer SG who led Conf USA in 3 point shooting pct (46%) last year. We didn't get HG or another scoring guard but the 2016 class fills needs and seems pretty solid.
 
wfu22fan said:
We have Dino (soph) and JC (fr) at power forward, so we were going to have a tough time getting a 4 star PF. We got a 3 star who can also play small forward. We have DM(fr) at center and added another 4 star center. We have a freshman 4 star PG (Crawford) and added a 3 star PG who can really shoot the ball. We needed outside shooters and added one of the best outside shooters in the East and a transfer SG who led Conf USA in 3 point shooting pct (46%) last year. We didn't get HG or another scoring guard but the 2016 class fills needs and seems pretty solid.
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Can we institute a ban from all basketball related forums for people that post this argument?

That being said, I'm encouraged by Manning's recruiting so far. The 2016 class sucks on paper, but it's probably about what you would expect from a P5 school that just had the 5-year stretch we've had. It's a let down after the 2015 class but it doesn't negate the talent Manning was able to bring in to the program in his first two classes.

I don't think we have enough evidence either way to say whether Manning will be able to consistently recruit at the level we grew accustomed to in the 20 years pre-redacted. The reality is that we are going to have to improve on the court to get back to that level. I think we currently have the talent in place to do that.
 
WFU Lurker said:
That's a pretty typical timeline. Shaka was an assistant for ten years before he got his shot. Michael White for eleven years. Both were coaches longer at a low level before getting called-up to a top conference.
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Exactly. And neither went straight to a school like Kansas as their first assistant gig. Both had to put in time jumping around from program to program over those years to make another step up. And then when they did get their first head coaching gig, they both had FAR more success and more sustained success before jumping to a big-time program. There's no doubt that Manning has had an easier road to a job at the top of the college basketball world, even when comparing him to some of the fastest risers and most talented coaches in the nation.
 
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RacerDeac said:
Exactly. And neither went straight to a school like Kansas as their first assistant gig. Both had to put in time jumping around from program to program over those years to make another step up. And then when they did get their first head coaching gig, they both had FAR more success and more sustained success before jumping to a big-time program. There's no doubt that Manning has had an easier road to a job at the top of the college basketball world, even when comparing him to some of the fastest risers and most talented coaches in the nation.
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Shaka Smart took over a better program at VCU than Manning did at Wake. Not sure that the Wake job has ever been near the top of the college basketball world, and it certainly wasn't after redacted.
 
People unconsciously think Manning is a better coach because he was a good player, including such people as athletic directors in charge of high major D1 athletics programs. Got it now.
 
RChildress107 said:
Not sure that the Wake job has ever been near the top of the college basketball world, and it certainly wasn't after redacted.
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Out of 350+ teams, we're a top 25 team over the last 25 years (maybe a bit lower after the last 5). How is that not at the top of the college basketball world? Never mind the intangibles such as our conference, tobacco road, etc. I really don't understand Wake Forest fans obsession with denying that we have been consistently really really good team, part of the 2nd tier behind a handful of teams that have been really, really great over the same time period.
 
TownieDeac said:
People unconsciously think Manning is a better coach because he was a good player, including such people as athletic directors in charge of high major D1 athletics programs. Got it now.
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1) My comment at no point mentioned athletic directors. That's completely out of context of the thread and comment I replied to. I was commenting solely on some of our fans' tendency to prescribe more coaching success and potential to Manning than they would if he hadn't been a successful player, despite little evidence that there's much/any correlation.

2) Said athletic director also hired [name redacted]...
 
RChildress107 said:
Can we institute a ban from all basketball related forums for people that post this argument?

That being said, I'm encouraged by Manning's recruiting so far. The 2016 class sucks on paper, but it's probably about what you would expect from a P5 school that just had the 5-year stretch we've had. It's a let down after the 2015 class but it doesn't negate the talent Manning was able to bring in to the program in his first two classes.

I don't think we have enough evidence either way to say whether Manning will be able to consistently recruit at the level we grew accustomed to in the 20 years pre-redacted. The reality is that we are going to have to improve on the court to get back to that level. I think we currently have the talent in place to do that.
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What about Auburn? A 5 star and two 4 stars in Pearl's second full recruiting class coming in 2016. Following up a class last year that featured 2 4-star players. Auburn hasn't been too the NCAA tourney since 2003 and been only 8 times in program history. Barbee (super nice guy BTW) had a 39.0% winning percentage and [Redacted] had a 40.1 winning percentage both from 2010-2014. Pearl and Manning had almost the exact same record their first year. Seems to me, by this logic, Auburn recruiting should be worse off than Wake because they don't even have the history of Odom, Prosser, Tacy etc. Make all the excuses you want about this staff's recruiting efforts, but there are coaches out there, getting great results with many of the same (or worse) supposed hindrances. I am not saying we should be putting up billboards, but there are reasons to be concerned.
 
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