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Dan's take on Wake

Ayo said:
Did Ga Tech only score 28 against UVA because of a lack of effort? Did #67 Harvard only score 27 against UVA because of a lack of effort? Did we get down 32 last year to UVA (and probably could have lost by 40 if Bennett didn't put the walk-ons in the last 4-5 minutes) because of a lack of effort? UVA is 26-1 for a reason. Shit happens, homes.
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VaDeac said:
"Lack of effort" is a completely immeasurable (and thus, in some minds, irrefutable) claim that people who don't know what they're talking about throw around when they don't have, or don't want to accept, another explanation.
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I guess when it comes from a player in the post game interview it's meaningless?

From Madison:

- they played much harder even when they were up big, they brought more energy
- it was an effort thing, if we could have played harder from the beginning it could have been different
- we can't have just little spurts we've got to do it 40 min

This thread is a big pile of rationalization. We played badly on both ends, didn't bring the effort (DT was on the bench early and often) and UVA played well. You don't get beat by more points than you scored because you were playing hard from the opening tip.
 
Moore and Collins cannot get here soon enough, IMHO. Devin is a one-trick pony in the paint and doesn't have the size to be effective against other 'bigs' on a consistent basis. That by itself is killing us. Can't have an inside-out offensive game plan if you don't have a threat inside...
 
FlaccidDeac said:
I agree that our talent is pretty shitty but I'd be interested to see how it compares with the 4 or 5 teams above us. It's not like we're outperforming expectations. We were predicted to finish 12th and it looks like that's right where we'll finish. Sure, we've had several moral victories but we've also won two games, by my count, where the opponent missed a point blank layup at the end of the game.
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And we have lost 4 or 5 games because our lead guard sucks
 
Deac83 said:
I guess when it comes from a player in the post game interview it's meaningless?

From Madison:

- they played much harder even when they were up big, they brought more energy
- it was an effort thing, if we could have played harder from the beginning it could have been different
- we can't have just little spurts we've got to do it 40 min

This thread is a big pile of rationalization. We played badly on both ends, didn't bring the effort (DT was on the bench early and often) and UVA played well. You don't get beat by more points than you scored because you were playing hard from the opening tip.
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Of course he's gonna say stuff like that. What do you expect him to say? Our team is very limited in talent and our coach got his tail whipped by Bennett? Although I'm not gonna go as far as some, Manning's working with a team of very one-dimensional players. You really don't think they had energy "from the beginning" after being a CMM turnover away from beating the #2 team in country on their home court less than 2 weeks ago? It was only 8-7 UVA 8 minutes into the game. Please, the "lack of energy" excuse is just so lame when you get bamboozled by a far superior team.
 
Tony Bennett's ACC record by season at UVA:

1st year: 5-11
2nd year: 7-9
3rd year: 9-7
4th year: 11-5
5th year 16-2

Bennett is a much better (and was a much better) in game coach than Manning is. I like Manning's recruiting ceiling. With 2 somewhat winnable games in Pittsburgh (home) and BC (road), I think it is very possible we end up 5-13 or maybe 6-12 in Manning's first season. Next year, I expect us to be at least a few games better which would would put us right on track with Bennett's record. The year after that we have the potential to land a monster recruiting class, and become a national recognized, top 25 team on an annual basis (and perhaps top 15).

So I am not discouraged at all by the UVA blowout. We were whooped by a LEGIT top 5 team who had motivation to chop some wood against us. They were almost embarrassed on their home court, and came to W-S to send a message. The message was delivered loud and clear. We are much improved this year, with a little less talent overall. Next year our talent level will be much improved from this year, and I expect to be better and avoid blowouts like this. To be honest I expected more games like this and the UNC game. The fact that we have been competitive across the board except for those 2 instances is a pleasant surprise. Don't fool yourself into thinking that we are a good team. We aren't. But we are better than last, and our recruiting is looking delicious. Just have to keep the faith as a fan base. It will be rewarded in my opinion.
 
SkyDivingDeacon said:
Moore and Collins cannot get here soon enough, IMHO. Devin is a one-trick pony in the paint and doesn't have the size to be effective against other 'bigs' on a consistent basis. That by itself is killing us. Can't have an inside-out offensive game plan if you don't have a threat inside...
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Last week I linked a boxscore from Monteverde's game versus the the #1 ranked team in NJ where Moore scored a whopping 2 FT's....as a bench sub. Several posters replied that Moore is a 'project' and 'projects' to maybe being a factor as a Junior at Wake. From various past reports/euphoria on the kid, this came as a sobering revelation. It sounds - perhaps inaccurately - that Moore is only marginally better than Andre Washington was at the same stage.

I hope Collins is a different story.
 
Ayo said:
Did Ga Tech only score 28 against UVA because of a lack of effort? Did #67 Harvard only score 27 against UVA because of a lack of effort? Did we get down 32 last year to UVA (and probably could have lost by 40 if Bennett didn't put the walk-ons in the last 4-5 minutes) because of a lack of effort? UVA is 26-1 for a reason. Shit happens, homes.
Click to expand...

VaDeac said:
"Lack of effort" is a completely immeasurable (and thus, in some minds, irrefutable) claim that people who don't know what they're talking about throw around when they don't have, or don't want to accept, another explanation.
Click to expand...

Ayo said:
Of course he's gonna say stuff like that. What do you expect him to say? Our team is very limited in talent and our coach got his tail whipped by Bennett? Although I'm not gonna go as far as some, Manning's working with a team of very one-dimensional players. You really don't think they had energy "from the beginning" after being a CMM turnover away from beating the #2 team in country on their home court less than 2 weeks ago? It was only 8-7 UVA 8 minutes into the game. Please, the "lack of energy" excuse is just so lame when you get bamboozled by a far superior team.
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Yes, that's the #1 excuse that comes out of an athlete's mouth 'we lacked effort'. These guys come out for the interview after DM has 15-20 min with them in the locker room, they are going to reflect what DM told them in there.
 
I agree Moore has a ways to go but he is a lot better than Andre at the same stage. Moore can put the ball on the floor and dunk with authority for one thing.
 
deaclite said:
I agree Moore has a ways to go but he is a lot better than Andre at the same stage. Moore can put the ball on the floor and dunk with authority for one thing.
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This.

In response to HONDO, I know we haven't seen him play in a college game yet but one game where he was underwhelming doesn't encompass his body of work. He's gone against other major D1 talent and more than held his own. The point being, he can't be worse than Washington and he adds size that we desperately need. I agree that he won't come in and immediately contribute with meaningful stats, but I think his size alone will help us a lot in the paint; even if we don't get many points out of him. Right now, all opposing teams have to do is trap Devin and they either get a steal, DT turns it over himself or forces a bad pass. We have no chance of winning without some kind of muscle in the paint and Manning knows that (which is why I don't think he would have recruited Moore so hard if he thought it would take 2-3 years before he was contributing in a meaningful way). Also agree about Collins. I think he can come in and play on Day 1. Kid looks like a stud.

Go Deacs!
 
While all this talk of Bennett is taking place, a buddy and I were discussing at lunch whether UVA is a destination job or stepping stone. Terry Holland is the only lifer that comes to mind although Jeff Jones might have stayed longer if he could have kept his Johnson in his pants. They have a new arena, pretty good support, and a good & fertile recruiting area. Also Bennett could really keep it going with Roy, K, Boeheim, etc. near the end of the line and they fact that hs is after all a hell of a coach.

On the flip side, does Bennett have higher aspirations? I would think those aspirations could be attained at UVA but who knows. Would he consider leaving say to Wisconsin where his Dad coached and where he was born? Bo Ryan isn't getting any younger and he has made WI even better than when Dick Bennett was there. Hell WI is probably a top ten program now or better. I am sure there are other suitors that will come calling in the future especially since Tony is only 45 yrs old. Would he spurn the Cavs should KY, AZ, Ohio St, etc. open?
 
Strickland33 said:
The reality is that UVA is a really talented basketball team that is really well coached.

Justin Anderson: 4-star (top-50 overall)
Evan Nolte: 4-star (top-75 overall)
Malcom Brogdon: 4-star (top-100 overall)
Mike Tobey: 4-star (top-100 overall)
BJ Stith: 4-star (top-100 overall) or 3-star (top-150 overall)
Anthony Gill: 4-star (top-100 overall) or 3-star (top-150 overall)
London Perrantes: 3-star (top-150 overall)
Devon Hall: 3-star (top-150)

I think it's fair to say that Atkins and Perrantes are the only two guys playing well above their projected ceiling, right now:

Perrantes is averaging 5.9 points (33%) and 4.4 assists.
Atkins is averaging 7.0 points and 6.1 rebounds.

Bennett is turning good players into great players. Rather than being fortunate, he is doing his job. And while y'all bitch about our team and about Manning, keep in mind that Bennett really wanted Mitchell Wilbekin.

We're used to coaches squandering talent; Tony Bennett does not seem to do that. Hopefully, Danny Manning will not do that either.

That a coach turns a top-50 or top-100 player into something special or useful (and we're talking about low first round to undrafted prospects here) really should not be surprising.
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Strickland33 said:
Our team looks like this:

CMM: 4-star (top-100)
Greg: 3-star (top-150)
Devin: 3-star (UR)
Aaron: 3-star (UR)
Mitchell: 3-star (UR)
Madison: 2/3-star (UR)
Andre: 2/3-star (UR)
Daniel: 2/3-star (UR)
Rondale: 2-star (UR)
Darius: UR
Crab: UR
Dinos: UR
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This comparison is really sobering. Bennett even has a reputation for being a lack luster recruiter and not going after top talent, but talent that fits his system, yet the independently assessed caliber of his recruits far exceeds our roster. Manning has a lot of work to do just to get the program back to a lackluster recruiting level by ACC standards. He is off to a good start in 2015 and 2016, I think.
 
I saw Andre in high school, and he was awful. I know he played for Hargrave, but he still came off the bench. Meanwhile, Moore is starting for Montverde. Andre had no motor, and was not intimidating on either end of the court. Moore can be an all-ACC player if he reaches his potential.
 
CumberlandDeac said:
I saw Andre in high school, and he was awful. I know he played for Hargrave, but he still came off the bench. Meanwhile, Moore is starting for Montverde. Andre had no motor, and was not intimidating on either end of the court. Moore can be an all-ACC player if he reaches his potential.
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Are we sure he's a consistant starter ? He didn't start in that big game in NJ....2 FT's off the bench as a sub.
 
Anyway we were talking about how Andre and Moore would match up now not at the same stage. Those who expressed an opinion thought Moore would play ahead of Andre.
 
Montverde has a ton of excellent players. The 7.4 FSU recruit gets a lot fewer minutes than Moore.
 
Where do you all get these Monteverde box scores?
 
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