• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

Dan's Take on Whatever

ChrisL68 said:
We have a small aging fanbase with younger alumni that are mostly out of state. There has never been a culture built that wake football is a can't miss event. It is what it is.
Click to expand...

Excellent take. It takes time to build support (said as a VT student back when 30K was a decent crowd in Lane).
 
Pilchard said:
WF is 3rd in the conference in points per game and yards per game. The last 3 years have produced the best offense in school history. By far.

Just amazes me that anyone watching the Clemson game could think that the problem with WF's offense was the scheme or play-calling: "let's run wide against the fastest defense in college football". Statistically, Clemson has the #2 defense in the country in yards, yards per play and points per game. Other than the hiccup against UNC, Clemson hasn't given up more than 14 points to any other opponent, including A&M who was held to 3 points until they scored a garbage TD late. BC, the #2 team in the ACC in offense scored a total of 7 points against Clemson. WF was without its two best offensive weapons against Clemson in Surratt and Washington. WF was going to have trouble scoring against Clemson even if they added some really "fun" plays. The idea that WF's "play-calling" somehow prevented WF from scoring more points against Clemson is a clueless take.

If you want to point to the VT game, VT's defense is now healthy and they are similarly stout. WF scored 17 against VT, and probably would've gotten to 24 if Surratt (who VT had no answer for) had not gotten knocked out in the 2nd half. The game before playing WF, VT held Notre Dame (who averages 36 a game) to 21, and that included a TD in the final seconds after a questionable call kept the ND drive alive. The game after WF, VT shutout GT. VT's defense, and again, the injuries to Washington and Surratt are the reasons why WF's offense was not as productive. Understand the opponent.

When Clawson started at WF, WF's offensive talent was embarrassingly pathetic, and WF struggled to score at all. As Clawson built the talent level, the offense is among the best in the country and the BEST in school history. Even so, WF has only a couple of NFL level players. This isn't tOSU or Clemson. Understand that every football fan thinks that the team they root for is just some "really good play designs" away from scoring lots of points, but that is not reality. When this scheme has talent, they score points and gain yards above many programs with more talent. When this scheme (or any scheme) lacks the players that can make "explosive" plays, or is banged up to the point where the opponents can take away the players who can make explosive plays, WF is going to score less and gain less yards. Calling jet sweeps and double reverse passes is not going to change that.
Click to expand...

That's true and all, but the programs that are a step up from Wake that might consider Clawson as their next coach aren't looking at the RPO crap and getting all excited at paying him $5 million a year.

On top of that, our defense is monumentally bad and markedly worse than it was when he got here.
 
Pilchard seems to think that variation in the offense can only be achieved with double reverse passes. Regarding jet sweeps who is one of the last players on our team that broke a big play against clemson? Kendall Hinton. Seems like you would want to give him the ball with the chance to make a play.

But by all means lets continue to give Cade Carney the ball running a delayed end around against Clemson when the defensive line is pretty much meeting him at the hand off point.

Were we going to win that game? Of course not but it would have been nice to lose 42-10 in a game where we weren't completely inept offensively.

Clemson gives up 265 a game. We were lucky to break 100.
 
Last edited:
I don't buy the high ticket price excuse. Our season ticket packages are an outright steal compared to other schools and you can't just cut the individual game ticket prices by 50% to drive attendance as you dilute your season ticket holders.

The large # of night games has only exacerbated the problem but the main issue is we have a large number of Wake fans/alums who follow athletics but don't support the football program by buying tickets and attending games. It's that simple.

It's much easier to piss and moan behind a keyboard then it is to buy tickets and attend games. Everyone wants to have a strong and consistent football program but we have a shortage of those who actually back it up with their time and money.

Yet on the flip side we have too many message board posters who are hell bent on punishing the football program to give our former AD another fuck you in retirement because the basketball program is a dumpster fire.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Pilchard seems to think that variation in the offense can only be achieved with double reverse passes. Regarding jet sweeps who is one of the last players on our team that broke a big play against clemson? Kendall Hinton. Seems like you would want to give him the ball with the chance to make a play.

But by all means lets continue to give Cade Carney the ball running a delayed end around against Clemson when the defensive line is pretty much meeting him at the hand off point.

Were we going to win that game? Of course not but it would have been nice to lose 42-10 in a game where we weren't completely inept offensively.

Clemson gives up 265 a game. We were lucky to break 100.
Click to expand...

And with Washington and Surratt that 100 becomes 200+ - their absence changed everything.
 
Everybody hated Lobo but everyone loves the orbit and double reverse passes and pines for the days of Nate Morton throwing touchdown passes to Riley Skinner.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Pilchard seems to think that variation in the offense can only be achieved with double reverse passes. Regarding jet sweeps who is one of the last players on our team that broke a big play against clemson? Kendall Hinton. Seems like you would want to give him the ball with the chance to make a play.

But by all means lets continue to give Cade Carney the ball running a delayed end around against Clemson when the defensive line is pretty much meeting him at the hand off point.

Were we going to win that game? Of course not but it would have been nice to lose 42-10 in a game where we weren't completely inept offensively.

Clemson gives up 265 a game. We were lucky to break 100.
Click to expand...

I wonder if we will see former QB Hinton throw a pass this year? Clemson was not the game to do it, but I"m surprised such a play hasn't been implemented yet. Of course, first you have to get him the ball in the backfield in a sweep or throw behind the line (as State has done with slot receiver Thayer Thomas twice for TDs), and I don't believe that has occurred yet either. Odd.

Edit: Hinton has one run this season. He also has one receiving TD, which must be the game winner against USU. None since then.
 
Last edited:
The flaw in Dan's argument is there are only so many schools that can contend for a national title and I do not think Clawson would be attractive to them. Overall record would be a hard sell to a really strong football school and there are not many of them looking for a coach. No way USC would go after him. I doubt he would go to FSU. Maybe Penn State, but don't think they are looking. I think Dave is an attractive individual and could sell himself, but just not sure there are going to be openings that he would be attracted to or that would go after him, this off season. By the way, I do think he is happy at Wake and could easily stay here for a few years
 
Buttermaker said:
I wonder if we will see former QB Hinton throw a pass this year? Clemson was not the game to do it, but I"m surprised such a play hasn't been implemented yet. Of course, first you have to get him the ball in the backfield in a sweep or throw behind the line (as State has done with slot receiver Thayer Thomas twice for TDs), and I don't believe that has occurred yet either. Odd.

Edit: Hinton has one run this season. He also has one receiving TD, which must be the game winner against USU. None since then.
Click to expand...

Case in point.
 
Really, if he went to a B1G West school all he would have to do is win that crappy division and upset tOSU in a one game scenario to make the playoff. That is doable at Iowa. Fuck, Minnesota is on the doorstep of doing that.

Same goes for the ACC. Aside from the fact that Clemson won't be good forever, a good team in the Coastal can make a run every year. Bronco Mendenhall and Jason Fuente have plum jobs right now. Hell, even Mack Brown and Dave Doeren have a shot at it.

Same goes for the PAC12. Anybody who thinks they're a good coach has to think he can take one of those huge state schools to the brink of a national championship in five years against the current competition.
 
RJKarl said:
There's little to nothing more Clawson can do at Wake. It's reasonable that he could be getting bored and looking for another channel.

Urban Meyer is the elephant in the room at USC.
Click to expand...

ACC title game appearance? ACC championship? Tier one bowl? He has plenty left to accomplish. He's not yet even the most accomplished coach of the last two...
 
BudatWake said:
The flaw in Dan's argument is there are only so many schools that can contend for a national title and I do not think Clawson would be attractive to them. Overall record would be a hard sell to a really strong football school and there are not many of them looking for a coach. No way USC would go after him. I doubt he would go to FSU. Maybe Penn State, but don't think they are looking. I think Dave is an attractive individual and could sell himself, but just not sure there are going to be openings that he would be attracted to or that would go after him, this off season. By the way, I do think he is happy at Wake and could easily stay here for a few years
Click to expand...

Thank you. While fans of probably 50 programs think their team could win it all, there are realistically about 10 that have a legitimate shot at the natty.
 
The most concerning part of that piece is that apparently someone in the know thinks Manning will be back.
 
I used to say this about Jim Grobe and I think the same thing applies to Clawson. He is a really good coach who has done some great things at Wake. But because of the size and fan base interest, he gets away with doing some things that would get him fired in his 3rd year at an SEC school. With Grobe, it was punting from the 35 yard line on 4th and 2 and crap like that and with Clawson its the delayed handoff scheme and lack of variety/imagination on offense. An SEC fanbase would be up in arms if they had a former QB playing massive minutes at WR without ever once running an orbit or throwing a pass and they sure as hell would lose their shit if they saw a Cade Carney type RB trying to run outside on Alabama.
Doesn't mean that Grobe or Clawson aren't outstanding coaches, just means that at WFU some of their "peculiarities" get overlooked (outside of the few diehards on this message board) that would be front and center at a school that lives and breathes football.
 
LocomotiveBreath said:
Thank you. While fans of probably 50 programs think their team could win it all, there are realistically about 10 that have a legitimate shot at the natty.
Click to expand...

And this year one of them is Minnesota. We're 10 games into the season and they've got a real shot. Sure, they don't look like they're good enough, but they've got a real shot.
 
Buttermaker said:
ACC title game appearance? ACC championship? Tier one bowl? He has plenty left to accomplish. He's not yet even the most accomplished coach of the last two...
Click to expand...

Barring a miracle or Clemson being put on probation, Wake ain't winning the ACC Championship in football.
 
Colonel Angus said:
I don't buy the high ticket price excuse. Our season ticket packages are an outright steal compared to other schools and you can't just cut the individual game ticket prices by 50% to drive attendance as you dilute your season ticket holders.

The large # of night games has only exacerbated the problem but the main issue is we have a large number of Wake fans/alums who follow athletics but don't support the football program by buying tickets and attending games. It's that simple.

It's much easier to piss and moan behind a keyboard then it is to buy tickets and attend games. Everyone wants to have a strong and consistent football program but we have a shortage of those who actually back it up with their time and money.

Yet on the flip side we have too many message board posters who are hell bent on punishing the football program to give our former AD another fuck you in retirement because the basketball program is a dumpster fire.
Click to expand...

For any program, attendance at games is a numbers game. Every fanbase has its circles. The biggest circle is every fan that is remotely interested in the program. Inside that you have the subset that is more invested - watch every game, follow scores when they can't, read about the team online, etc. Then the next smallest circle contains the hard-core fans - the ones that do all of the above but also spend their money to actually attend games, buy some gear, tailgate, etc. (There is an even smaller circle containing the folks that travel to away games, bowl games, buy all the gear, etc.) And there are gradations all in between...

Our problem is that we have a fanbase where the size of our largest circle is about 1/10 the size of most of our competitors. That is because every fanbase starts with the alumni and all the people connected to those alumni. By the time you get down to the circle containing our hard-core fans that are motivated to attend games, that circle is tiny. (Not to mention the fact that our attendance demographics mean most of our alumni do not live within an easy drive of home games)

There are two ways to make that hard-core circle larger. One is to make the biggest circle bigger - create more interest in the program overall. A certain percentage of those newly-interested people will eventually convert to hard-core. The only sure way to do this is to win - that gets you ranked, gets you in the television replays and highlights, gets you mentioned on the news, etc.
The second way is to convert a larger percentage of the people in the biggest circles to hard-core. You do this by reaching out to your known fanbase and connecting to them so they become motivated to attend. Winning helps here too, of course, but there are ways to identify people who are already interested and to reach out to them - pull them in to a game. Once you get them to attend you make sure they have a great experience so they will come back. I am no expert in that kind of thing but there are people who are. Those are the kind of people we seem to need more of in the AD's office.
 
Last edited:
Colonel Angus said:
I don't buy the high ticket price excuse. Our season ticket packages are an outright steal compared to other schools and you can't just cut the individual game ticket prices by 50% to drive attendance as you dilute your season ticket holders.

The large # of night games has only exacerbated the problem but the main issue is we have a large number of Wake fans/alums who follow athletics but don't support the football program by buying tickets and attending games. It's that simple.

It's much easier to piss and moan behind a keyboard then it is to buy tickets and attend games. Everyone wants to have a strong and consistent football program but we have a shortage of those who actually back it up with their time and money.

Yet on the flip side we have too many message board posters who are hell bent on punishing the football program to give our former AD another fuck you in retirement because the basketball program is a dumpster fire.
Click to expand...

#betterphangus
 
Buttermaker said:
Or Wake can just keep running Carney up the middle on delayed handoffs. That has been pretty effective.
Click to expand...
I mean there's a chance we're not going to have Washington against Duke so the coaches need to be racking their brains to try to come up with a game plan where we can move the football keep our defense off the field and score some points to give us a chance to win. If we don't try anything different and we don't move the ball then that's a coaching failure.

We have shown just little inklings of creativity. The Wildcat I remember a halfback swing pass. The funny thing is that we use cade carney in both situations when I think we have other players on the roster who would be much more effective.

Carney has been a warrior for us. But he hasn't been particularly effective for us this year for whatever reason and he's been way over utilized in the offense
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top