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Dan's Take on Whatever

BiffTannen said:
And this year one of them is Minnesota. We're 10 games into the season and they've got a real shot. Sure, they don't look like they're good enough, but they've got a real shot.
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Nope. Wake goes to a Final Four in bball when Minnesota wins a natty in football.
 
Pilchard said:
WF is 3rd in the conference in points per game and yards per game. The last 3 years have produced the best offense in school history. By far.

Just amazes me that anyone watching the Clemson game could think that the problem with WF's offense was the scheme or play-calling: "let's run wide against the fastest defense in college football". Statistically, Clemson has the #2 defense in the country in yards, yards per play and points per game. Other than the hiccup against UNC, Clemson hasn't given up more than 14 points to any other opponent, including A&M who was held to 3 points until they scored a garbage TD late. BC, the #2 team in the ACC in offense scored a total of 7 points against Clemson. WF was without its two best offensive weapons against Clemson in Surratt and Washington. WF was going to have trouble scoring against Clemson even if they added some really "fun" plays. The idea that WF's "play-calling" somehow prevented WF from scoring more points against Clemson is a clueless take.

If you want to point to the VT game, VT's defense is now healthy and they are similarly stout. WF scored 17 against VT, and probably would've gotten to 24 if Surratt (who VT had no answer for) had not gotten knocked out in the 2nd half. The game before playing WF, VT held Notre Dame (who averages 36 a game) to 21, and that included a TD in the final seconds after a questionable call kept the ND drive alive. The game after WF, VT shutout GT. VT's defense, and again, the injuries to Washington and Surratt are the reasons why WF's offense was not as productive. Understand the opponent.

When Clawson started at WF, WF's offensive talent was embarrassingly pathetic, and WF struggled to score at all. As Clawson built the talent level, the offense is among the best in the country and the BEST in school history. Even so, WF has only a couple of NFL level players. This isn't tOSU or Clemson. Understand that every football fan thinks that the team they root for is just some "really good play designs" away from scoring lots of points, but that is not reality. When this scheme has talent, they score points and gain yards above many programs with more talent. When this scheme (or any scheme) lacks the players that can make "explosive" plays, or is banged up to the point where the opponents can take away the players who can make explosive plays, WF is going to score less and gain less yards. Calling jet sweeps and double reverse passes is not going to change that.
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Constantly running extremely slow mesh point RPOs against teams with elite front 7s puts the OL in an impossible situation. I often feel really bad for those guys. They're forced to hold what turns out to be a run block for 3-4 seconds. A RB should typically be through the hole (if one exists) and to the 2nd level in a little over one second. Or, when running misdirection or counter plays, you can try to get an elite defense to over-pursue too far up-field. Our offense features neither of these.

When matched with inferior or near-equal defensive talent, the RPO is great, because it puts so much stress on the LBs and secondary after a stymie at the line of scrimmage (OL can't go downfield). But we absolutely have to have a plan B running game for when the RPO doesn't work. Right now, that is pretty much solely a 5 wide set with a direct snap to the QB or RB.
 
In an odd, masochistic way, I think these loses to Clemson may be some motivation to Clawson to stay. I think the number one thing Clawson wants to do is beat Clemson, with a Wake team, before he leaves.
 
Clawson in weekly news conference implores fan base to show up Saturday night. Weather at night looking better than weather during the day. This is one game where the night start could help. I will be there with 5 others. Go Deacs!
 
ChrisL68 said:
Pilchard seems to think that variation in the offense can only be achieved with double reverse passes. Regarding jet sweeps who is one of the last players on our team that broke a big play against clemson? Kendall Hinton. Seems like you would want to give him the ball with the chance to make a play.

But by all means lets continue to give Cade Carney the ball running a delayed end around against Clemson when the defensive line is pretty much meeting him at the hand off point.

Were we going to win that game? Of course not but it would have been nice to lose 42-10 in a game where we weren't completely inept offensively.

Clemson gives up 265 a game. We were lucky to break 100.
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If you look back over the season at the issues with this offense - it actually started with the Utah State - and the mesh delayed RPO was not good enough to get in the end zone. Moving on to Louisville, FSU, VT, and even NC State - blitzed their LB's to fill the gaps, and slowed the run. Suratt/Washington/Hinton/Wild Carney covered up these issues. The only goal line rush tds have really been individual efforts by carney/newman running over players up the middle - which have failed more than succeeded. I still have no idea why Wake doesn't try to get CBS/Walker/Hinton the ball in space or on the edge. Pounding them up the gut, is such a waste of talent. Screens, swing passes, shallow crossing routes (Campanaro routes) seem to be open. But, those plays never happen. My thinking is Newman is not comfortable making those passes. Granted, we aren't beating Clemson, but those first 4 offensive possessions were some of the weakest play calling that has happened this year. I really want to know what the coaches were thinking with that type of game plan.
 
HCF3 said:
If you look back over the season at the issues with this offense - it actually started with the Utah State - and the mesh delayed RPO was not good enough to get in the end zone. Moving on to Louisville, FSU, VT, and even NC State - blitzed their LB's to fill the gaps, and slowed the run. Suratt/Washington/Hinton/Wild Carney covered up these issues. The only goal line rush tds have really been individual efforts by carney/newman running over players up the middle - which have failed more than succeeded. I still have no idea why Wake doesn't try to get CBS/Walker/Hinton the ball in space or on the edge. Pounding them up the gut, is such a waste of talent. Screens, swing passes, shallow crossing routes (Campanaro routes) seem to be open. But, those plays never happen. My thinking is Newman is not comfortable making those passes. Granted, we aren't beating Clemson, but those first 4 offensive possessions were some of the weakest play calling that has happened this year. I really want to know what the coaches were thinking with that type of game plan.
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Yes
 
HCF3 said:
I really want to know what the coaches were thinking with that type of game plan.
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I don't know - but I suspect they were thinking (because this is what I was thinking):

1)we have no chance of winning this game but we don't dare say that; and
2)if we maximize our chance of keeping it a respectable score by getting Hinton the ball in space, we jeopardize his health for the two games we can win
 
thatguy2016 said:
I don't know - but I suspect they were thinking (because this is what I was thinking):

1)we have no chance of winning this game but we don't dare say that; and
2)if we maximize our chance of keeping it a respectable score by getting Hinton the ball in space, we jeopardize his health for the two games we can win
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I also suspect that especially with Sage and Scotty out, Hinton was wearing at least 2 Tiger defenders in his hip pocket the entire game. I do agree though, that it has been a little disappointing that we haven't used Hinton more on orbits and/or sweeps this season and haven't seen him even throw one pass off a fake sweep or reverse.
 
interesting thread - and always good to hear from country dan. i agree the points are valid, tho not sure it hits next year.

I actually think Michigan State would be an interesting oppy for him. it's a step up football wise and in need of a pretty big rebuild. i like the earlier post - there are really only 10-20 schools that have *any* chance at a natty so working presumption of course is a) that's where he would want to go and b) they would want him.

I just don't see USC hiring a coach from Wake with no west coast ties. Don't see him leaving for another ACC job (maybe FSU? seems unlikely). Maybe B12 but where? PAC-10 is unlikely. don't think serious SEC school would take a chance on him. B10 seems most likely to me given his background - that's why i think MSU could be a fit if D'antonio retires.
 
btw i see Vandy AD is getting dragged for tweeting his commitment to Mason. it's Wellman - Manning level bad.
 
Henry Chinaski said:
interesting thread - and always good to hear from country dan. i agree the points are valid, tho not sure it hits next year.

I actually think Michigan State would be an interesting oppy for him. it's a step up football wise and in need of a pretty big rebuild. i like the earlier post - there are really only 10-20 schools that have *any* chance at a natty so working presumption of course is a) that's where he would want to go and b) they would want him.

I just don't see USC hiring a coach from Wake with no west coast ties. Don't see him leaving for another ACC job (maybe FSU? seems unlikely). Maybe B12 but where? PAC-10 is unlikely. don't think serious SEC school would take a chance on him. B10 seems most likely to me given his background - that's why i think MSU could be a fit if D'antonio retires.
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I was looking at the B-10 standings earlier for just this reason, and MSU was the school that jumped out at me if it became available. Dantanio has fallen on mostly hard times the last few years after a good decade or so. Or maybe Purdue or Illinois, though they've both been irrelevant for a long time. If I were him, I wouldn't take any of the bad SEC jobs. He's already been at UT, and if you were lucky enough to have any success at any of those, he'd want to hop over to a bigger school pretty quickly - see Dan Mullen. And agree about the PAC-10. He's had success before in the midwest, so that would seem the more natural landing place. So I hope MSU keeps Dantonio for a while longer.
 
KitchinDeac said:
The most concerning part of that piece is that apparently someone in the know thinks Manning will be back.
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After this last offseason, I think we all should be worried there is at least a 12.5% chance Manning is back.
 
^ agree. illinois is no better than wake. purdue seems set medium term. wisky seems set. maybe penn state but that's a reach. the truly elite programs aren't hiring the coach from wake - the optics are bad. he needs to look at the next tier (Mich state falls in here, i guess FSU too but that seems like a mess and would be weird to move within division but who knows).
 
Henry Chinaski said:
^ agree. illinois is no better than wake. purdue seems set medium term. wisky seems set. maybe penn state but that's a reach. the truly elite programs aren't hiring the coach from wake - the optics are bad. he needs to look at the next tier (Mich state falls in here, i guess FSU too but that seems like a mess and would be weird to move within division but who knows).
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Does the ACC still have the stated or unstated rule that a member school can't poach a coach from another ACC member school? I remember the ACC commish at the time nixing NC State trying to get Odom to coach for State. Or is now okay to go coach poaching? But as a practical matter, I don't see FSU going after Clawson, even if that's now permitted. I can't see their fan base being cool with a guy whose best jobs were Wake and BG - not high profile enough.
 
cville deac said:
Does the ACC still have the stated or unstated rule that a member school can't poach a coach from another ACC member school? I remember the ACC commish at the time nixing NC State trying to get Odom to coach for State. Or is now okay to go coach poaching? But as a practical matter, I don't see FSU going after Clawson, even if that's now permitted. I can't see their fan base being cool with a guy whose best jobs were Wake and BG - not high profile enough.
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https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/coaches/tom-obrien-1.html
 
cville deac said:
I was looking at the B-10 standings earlier for just this reason, and MSU was the school that jumped out at me if it became available. Dantanio has fallen on mostly hard times the last few years after a good decade or so. Or maybe Purdue or Illinois, though they've both been irrelevant for a long time. If I were him, I wouldn't take any of the bad SEC jobs. He's already been at UT, and if you were lucky enough to have any success at any of those, he'd want to hop over to a bigger school pretty quickly - see Dan Mullen. And agree about the PAC-10. He's had success before in the midwest, so that would seem the more natural landing place. So I hope MSU keeps Dantonio for a while longer.
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MSU is not that attractive with good Michigan and Penn St. programs. Keeping in mind OSU is also picking who they want right now. There just isn't enough midwestern talent to support all of them.
 
DeacsOrDie said:
In an odd, masochistic way, I think these loses to Clemson may be some motivation to Clawson to stay. I think the number one thing Clawson wants to do is beat Clemson, with a Wake team, before he leaves.
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I agree with these sentiments. Coach Clawson is a self-driven individual that wants to peak at wherever he’s coaching. I think he’ll want to coach a Wake team that consistently stays in the top-25 and knock out Clemson before he leaves.
 
scooter84 said:
For any program, attendance at games is a numbers game. Every fanbase has its circles. The biggest circle is every fan that is remotely interested in the program. Inside that you have the subset that is more invested - watch every game, follow scores when they can't, read about the team online, etc. Then the next smallest circle contains the hard-core fans - the ones that do all of the above but also spend their money to actually attend games, buy some gear, tailgate, etc. (There is an even smaller circle containing the folks that travel to away games, bowl games, buy all the gear, etc.) And there are gradations all in between...

Our problem is that we have a fanbase where the size of our largest circle is about 1/10 the size of most of our competitors. That is because every fanbase starts with the alumni and all the people connected to those alumni. By the time you get down to the circle containing our hard-core fans that are motivated to attend games, that circle is tiny. (Not to mention the fact that our attendance demographics mean most of our alumni do not live within an easy drive of home games)

There are two ways to make that hard-core circle larger. One is to make the biggest circle bigger - create more interest in the program overall. A certain percentage of those newly-interested people will eventually convert to hard-core. The only sure way to do this is to win - that gets you ranked, gets you in the television replays and highlights, gets you mentioned on the news, etc.
The second way is to convert a larger percentage of the people in the biggest circles to hard-core. You do this by reaching out to your known fanbase and connecting to them so they become motivated to attend. Winning helps here too, of course, but there are ways to identify people who are already interested and to reach out to them - pull them in to a game. Once you get them to attend you make sure they have a great experience so they will come back. I am no expert in that kind of thing but there are people who are. Those are the kind of people we seem to need more of in the AD's office.
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I think you are right. The alumni will always be small and we have to come up with ways to get non-alumni involved. The triad is a huge market, over a million. Even from Greensboro, the trip to Wake is shorter than the trips to Duke, State or Carolina. The school seems to need to really try and tap in to the local market through an overly aggressive marketing scheme. Really push home the ACC-triad connection. There has always been a lack or availability of Wake gear around. Even today, you see UNC, State and Duke and App St shit at Walmart, convenience stores, all over the place and little to no Wake stuff. Why is that? There shouldn't be a local store that doesn't have something Wake to sell. Winston should have Wake plastered everywhere.

....and the students should stay the whole game and not leave at halftime.
 
MichDeac25 said:
MSU is not that attractive with good Michigan and Penn St. programs. Keeping in mind OSU is also picking who they want right now. There just isn't enough midwestern talent to support all of them.
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Feels like that's exactly the type of challenge that Clawson would seek. You could say something similar about coming to Wake in the shadow of bigger programs in the ACC.

Not sure why people are mentioning Penn State. Franklin's not going anywhere unless the NFL comes calling.
 
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