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Do negative fans hurt the basketball program?

RJKarl said:
Kent, I think Wellman saw a lot (not all) of the problems coming and increasing.

They also made plays for at least one other coach (I think more than one).

[Redacted] was no one's first choice, but we have him.

If you have anything like an open mind you have to be enthused and encouraged by the loyalty and excitment of this incoming class. It also disproved the premise that he can't recruit.

Many times you have to clean house before starting over.

The jury is still out on how he will do with the new level of talent, but given the fact he will be here (unless a great pro opportunity takes him away), there is no upside in constant vitriolic, often irrational and sometimes hate-filled threads.

They do no good and have no potentially good impact.

If he fails with this new group, everyone will agree he should be gone.
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I don't have any material issues with the above. Having said that...

I don't know whether or not we tried to hire other people before we hired Buzz, but people very close to the process told me at the time that it did not appear to them that we did. Regardless, you don't fire a guy in the absence of a horrible transgression unless you know you can do better. And you sure as hell don't turn around and tell the world you did it for post-season failure and then hire someone with Buzz's record. If if was culture thing, Wellman should have said so. That would have been far less damaging to Dino than the free-for-all of innuendos and implications that resulted, and continues. Not to mention the fact that saying nothing about the reasons is better in every meaningful way than spinning a bunch of bullshit.

I have not been vitriolic on the Buzz issue. I don't know him. I don't dislike him personally. I'm just saying that I don't think he had any business getting hired as our head coach. That's not his fault.

Finally, I don't care if my lamentations do any good or not. If Wellman wants me to rave (as in speak with wild enthusiasm) about WFU basketball, then don't try to bullshit me and give me something to rave about.
 
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RJKarl said:
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You can get caught up on the specifics of Ari and your sources all you want, and yet the point still stands...Bzz seems to have a very different philosophy towards his players than Skip did. It's my opinion that Skip's was a better approach towards coaching college basketball players.
 
RacerDeac said:
Gotta disagree. Even as 3rd or 4th in the State, we're very much a respected program nationally. We have gone head to head for the best recruits in the nation and come out on top. Football is one story...basketball is absolutely a different one. LOWF is alive and well. Toughest jobs in the country in basketball? Yeah, right.
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Absolutely its one of the toughest jobs in the country. I'd put NC State right there with it--but they have a lot more money and history to throw around than we do. We have a decent national reputation--but there's a reason we haven't been to a Final 4 in 50 years--or have only won 4 conference titles in 59 seasons. Its hard to have success with two top-5 programs 90 miles down the road. We've gotten the occasional top-50 recruit over the years--but our best players have historically not been top-50 recruits (or are local from Winston-Salem like CP3 and Josh Howard--toss CJ Harris in there as well). Aminu and Rodney Rogers are the only two top national recruits (top 50 consensus) that I can recall over the last 20+ years that don't fit that profile, that we've gotten. Throw on top of that the fact that we have one of the worst home-court advantages in the conference (even when we're decent)--and its a huge uphill challenge for any coach.
 
One of the toughest jobs in the country? You gotta be kidding. All three of the college head coaching jobs [Redacted] has had came with significantly more difficult limitations.

Random example, in what way is the Wake Forest job more difficult than, say, Boston College?
 
bullshit. wake is one of the top half jobs in the conference. no way it's one of the toughest jobs in the country
 
CharmCityDeac said:
Throw on top of that the fact that we have one of the worst home-court advantages in the conference (even when we're decent)--and its a huge uphill challenge for any coach.
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Our home court was one of the best in the land not that long ago. It's absurd to call a tobacco road ACC school one of the toughest basketball jobs in the country.
 
RacerDeac said:
You can get caught up on the specifics of Ari and your sources all you want, and yet the point still stands...Bzz seems to have a very different philosophy towards his players than Skip did. It's my opinion that Skip's was a better approach towards coaching college basketball players.
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You r points have changed every time one is proven wrong....which you have yet to admit you have been wrong about.
 
Wait... CCD is serious in saying that Wake is one of the hardest coaching jobs in the country?

Woof.
 
Wake is like 10th or 12th in the most top 100 recruits since 1990. Anybody who thinks this is one of the toughest jobs in the nation is delusional.
 
Jeff [Redacted] who has the personality of a wet mop with all of the media around here going WTF was still able to bring in a top 20 class here.
 
RJKarl said:
You r points have changed every time one is proven wrong....which you have yet to admit you have been wrong about.
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My point has always been that Bzz seems to be a hands off coach when it comes to his players off the practice court (and perhaps even on the court, where I get the feeling he explains how to do something but never really teaches it). Point me to where that has changed.

RacerDeac said:
Bzz seems to have a hands off approach towards his players (perhaps a more NBA like approach), assuming they should take care of everything that doesn't involve the basketball court, and even there, his job is just to tell them the right way to do something and expect them to figure out how to do it. Grobe, Skip etc have taken a different approach to coaching. I always considered their approach to be more "Wake Foresty".
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RacerDeac said:
You think that Bzz has the same coaching philosophy as Skip? As Grobe? You think these players see Bzz as a father figure?

Bzz appears far less invested in his players than other coaches we've had or have. Evidenced by their interaction with him on the sidelines, his speaking about them after games, the quotes about how they "just don't get it" even though he has shown them what to do, and the lack of buy-in that the players above exhibited. That's an observed opinion held by more than a few Wake fans.
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RacerDeac said:
My responsibility extends beyond establishing a zero tolerance policy. I don't think Bzz necessarily believes that his does.
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RacerDeac said:
I'm all for recruiting good kids. But the coach still has some responsibility towards helping them navigate what it means to be an 18-22 year old college student and athlete while staying away from potential pitfalls.
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RacerDeac said:
I honestly think Bzz knows basketball. I don't think he knows much at all about being a coach to 18-22 year old young men in college.
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RacerDeac said:
You can get caught up on the specifics of Ari and your sources all you want, and yet the point still stands...Bzz seems to have a very different philosophy towards his players than Skip did. It's my opinion that Skip's was a better approach towards coaching college basketball players.
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He was not a hands off coach with Ari or Melvin...you don't know what you are talking about.
 
Wake is not a bad job. That's just silly.

It is also silly to expect a consistent winner in year 1.5, when the team has been just about dismantled.

Thank God Wellman is a mature adult with a long term plan. If he were to take his marching orders from this sorry lot, we'd have a new coach after every game!

ChrisL68 said:
Jeff [Redacted] who has the personality of a wet mop with all of the media around here going WTF was still able to bring in a top 20 class here.
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blackgold said:
Wake is not a bad job. That's just silly.

It is also silly to expect a consistent winner in year 1.5, when the team has been just about dismantled.

Thank God Wellman is a mature adult with a long term plan. If he were to take his marching orders from this sorry lot, we'd have a new coach after every game!
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Are you responding to chris with what you said here?
 
Its the 4th best job in the state. Once Pitt and Syracuse come in to the conference--I would rank it no higher than the 8th or 9th best job in the conference. And that's probably being generous--putting us ahead of programs like UVA and/or GT.

Let's define a great job, too. A lot of you guys seem to think any ACC job is a great one. That's not how I'm defining it. Can you win consistently there and be a perennial top-10 program there--that's how I define a great job. As much as I'd like to, I can't put Wake there right now. No coach we've ever had in the history of our program has gotten us there consistently. There are probably 15-20 schools nationally I would put at that level. We are not one of them. We have two legendary coaches and programs 90 miles down the road. That--almost definitionally--makes our job an extremely challenging one.

And no one said it was a bad job. Its just a very challenging one.
 
Lectro said:
Like fucking dental work, pal.
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Is it weird that I picture Bruce Willis from Die Hard every time Lectro posts? Except racist. A racist Bruce Willis from Die Hard.
WELCOME TO THE PARTY, PAL!
 
You called it one of the toughest jobs in the country. That's absurd.
 
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