Does Putin have something on Trump? (Answer: YES)

[Deacs89]

Democrats have clearly given reasons for their increased concern about Russia, what reasons have Republicans given for their decreased concern? What is the reason for Conservatives new found acceptance of Russia's actions?

Obama apparently knew of this in October? why did he say nothing until after Trump won?

 

[ImTheCaptain]

for the same reason the FBI historically kept its mouth shut the month before an election

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

Again, irrelevant to explaining the acceptance and support for Putin from Trump supporters & conservatives. It's clear you don't agree with Obama slapping Putin's wrist, but thats not what I'm asking about.

I love when you folks keep asking the same question because you have an answer in mind and any other explanation is unsatisfactory.

 

[Newenglanddeac]

You mean the Clintons involvement with Uranium One. You are right. That was some sketchy stuff.

No

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

I am not dancing around anything. Nobody is accepting of Russia's "actions". Can you tell me what the actions were exactly?

Exposing how the corrupt DNC screwed Bernie. You'd think all these supposed Bernie supporters would have been happy with that. But again, Assange has said it wasn't a state actor.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

My focus is not on things like hacking or Syria. The hacking, IMO, is a nice diversion story. If they didn't hack voting machines, then it means nothing. Even if the DNC and Podesta were hacked by the Russians, so what? We know the Russians penetrate our cyber defenses all the time. I'm more worried about what Snowden gave to the Russians than what they found sorting through DNC and Podesta crap. But keep blaming Trump's election on the Russkies if it makes you feel better. The Syria thing-- that is, recognizing that our common counter-terrorism interests may call for a review of Syria policy-- is something that actually makes sense. It would be a big policy flip-flop, and one that our European allies wouldn't dig, but it appears to be pragmatic at least. I don't know that it's the best option, or if any good option exists there, but it's outside the box thinking. In the end, if we cooperate in Syria and Assad is left standing, what is the harm versus the benefit? That's a discussion that should be had.

I'd be far more concerned if we just opt to let the Crimea stuff skate or let something similar to it happen elsewhere. Pooty-Poot cannot be emboldened to act as if this is the second coming of the old USSR. He must respect the borders of his old satellite states.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

No

Oh, that doesn't bother you? Wonder why.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Obama apparently knew of this in October? why did he say nothing until after Trump won?

It's obvious that you aren't going to give a straight answer about why Trump voting conservatives are now so accepting and supportive of Vladimir Putin.

You and I both know why Democrats are suddenly concerned about Putin, no reason for you to keep beating that dead horse, just answer the question.

 

[RJKarl]

Putin owns Trump. He helped put him in office. Trump has borrowed millions upon millions upon millions from Russians. Very, very, very few Russians have that kind of money without ties to Putin.

It's not an accident that Putin's hand-picked, political operative ran Trump's campaign. Manafort was paid millions by Putin. It's not by accident that Flynn was picked.

There's never been a POTUS whop has owed so much to an adversarial dictator as Trump owes Putin.

 

[BobStackFan4Life]

It's obvious that you aren't going to give a straight answer about why Trump voting conservatives are now so accepting and supportive of Vladimir Putin.

You and I both know why Democrats are suddenly concerned about Putin, no reason for you to keep beating that dead horse, just answer the question.

It's a natural reaction when people see someone they think is being unfairly accused by people that they don't like and don't trust, ie, Team Clinton and the Never Trump Republicans. Many of Trump's supporters see it as a reckless attempt to deligitimize Trump's victory. Most Americans don't know shit about Putin/Russia.

 

[warak]

come on BSF4L, the election is over and Trump won. you can stop posting "what about Hillary" or "what about Obama" in every damn response. it's just deflecting and not addressing the question or situation. in two weeks those two have ZERO to do with American Politics! you can respond honestly with civilly, without that BS...


do you really not have any concerns about Trump and Putin's relationship or if Russia did interfered with the American political election? you just don't care?

eatleadcommie...interesting take, i need to read up more on this.

 

[ThinkingWithMyDeac]

It's all optics. The US doesn't want to support Assad because he has been shown to be a ruthless war crime dictator. The US has supported these people before but they can't be so transparent about it. A complete shift in policy now would leave the US too exposed to our world claim as moral authority.

ELC is right however in we should rethink ISIS and Syria strategy while still being on guard for future Russian actions. Should let Russia deal in Syria and we should stay within Iraq. Putin as trump would say is smart, he has been doing this a long time and is a master manipulator. We can't let him think he has free authority to encroach on more free independent nations, which has been the goal since they all left years ago.

 

[cville deac]

3 words: Follow. The. Money.

Yeah, I remember reading some time ago that, after his last corporate bankruptcy, most of his borrowing over the last decade has been with Deutschebank and Ukrainian and Russian banks.

 

[Newenglanddeac]

I know BSFL doesn't like this guy but he's probably been the most unbiased (aside from being American) view on all of this. Guy is former US IC member, navy and current war college professor. I posted this on the other thread a few weeks ago.

Highly recco his twitter feed for more info. Rick Wilson is another good source who's been on this since the summer. He's published several articles in the daily beast.

https://www.google.com/amp/observer...yths-about-russian-hacking/amp/?client=safari

 

[PhDeac]

Well, it was just in 2012 when Obama told Romney not to worry about Russia on national TV because the Cold War was over. Now we are putting special forces troops in the Baltics.

I'm trying to think what happened between 2012 and now with the Russian Federation and ground troops...

Yep. People act like Obama's words happen independent of Russia's actions. It's clear by now that Putin put Obama's quote up in the Kremlin locker rooms. That woke up the sleeping bear and they've stepped their game up since.

 

[P4nthers11]

Russia is just one of many countries that spy on the US and do bad things. There is no reasoning w/ you folks on this issue- the establishment wants you to think he's the next Dr. Evil, intent on destroying the world, and you've bought into it hook, line, and sinker. People should listen to the interview with Assange and read the Ars Technica and Intercept articles. Drop the Cold War hysteria. It's far from a certainty that Putin was behind the Podesta leaks, but there is no doubt in the minds of you folks. It's scary how easy it is for you people to be brainwashed. Because you want to believe. It's like the WMD bs all over again. Maybe Putin was behind it. I have my doubts but I'm open to the possibility. But ultimately what happened was a good thing for the American people. They got to see the real Hillary, in her own words.

The irony.

In any event, there is literally no constructive dialogue to be had here if you can take the massive body of evidence that, regardless of politics, Trump has been an insufferable shit and terrible person his entire life and then completely ignore that while holding up Hillary's . . . what? She used a private email and the Clinton Foundation operated at times in the gray areas of ethics. That is worth embracing a wildly incompetent and unstable cheeto colored shithead even now. The election is over. You don't have to worry about Hillary anymore. That she committed the terrible sin of running for president has apparently given some conservatives carte blanche to embrace Russia and authoritarianism. It doesnt make any sense.

Question for Trump fans, do you acknowledge he is a completely awful person hiding behind a caricature of a public persona and you just hate the "establishment" that much or are you actually true believers in this guy? If the latter, God help you. You are about to be Trump University'd so hard.

 

[Deacs89]

Is this fucking real?

Annexation of Crimea, killing journalists/political opponents, corruption scandals, state run media, human rights crises, the list goes on and on.

It's not like Dems have been leaders on this, but now that there's a bipartisan coalition starting to pay attention, it's batshit insane that dyed in the wool conservatives all the sudden buddy up to Putin because Trump likes him.

is this real? this is the whole point. what a joke. Throw in Syria red lines, Russia buzzing US carriers and now you want to freak out about Russia. I am all for being tough on Russia but you and your Dems friends seem a little weak on the subject.

 

[DeacMan]

Again, irrelevant to explaining the acceptance and support for Putin from Trump supporters & conservatives. It's clear you don't agree with Obama slapping Putin's wrist, but thats not what I'm asking about.

It isn't clear at all.

It was just a wrist slap, however. And, frankly, I'm not sure to what end it was made.

What is not a wrist slap is meeting Putin's threat (or is it now an action) to put arms on the Baltic borders with the positioning of U.S. troops on the border. That profiles strength on our part (and hopefully Trump doesn't unwind it).

 

[RJKarl]

]It isn't clear at all.
[/COLOR]
It was just a wrist slap, however. And, frankly, I'm not sure to what end it was made.

What is not a wrist slap is meeting Putin's threat (or is it now an action) to put arms on the Baltic borders with the positioning of U.S. troops on the border. That profiles strength on our part (and hopefully Trump doesn't unwind it).

Are you saying it isn't clear that Russia did the hack?

 

[BillBrasky]

If this bromance leads to the U.S. and Russia teaming up against Muslim extremism then I'm cool with it. Throw Iran and even Assad into that awkward alliance as well for all I care. I'm Shia > Sunni all day every day at this point. Wahhabism needs to be cleansed.