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Down Goes Silent Sam

If little dying rural towns want to keep their CSA monuments I'm cool with that. I don't think the librul elite voters in Charlotte/Raleigh/Greensboro/Asheville should tell Yanceyville what to do with its stupid statue. People will vote with their feet and dollars, and already have, which is why these little towns are struggling against the demographic tide of falling populations and all their educated young people refusing to come back after college.

By the same token, I don't think the reactionary rubes in Caswell County ought to be telling Greensboro what ought to happen with its Confederate memorial (Greensboro is lucky, all our monuments are small and out of the way, not big triumphant statues in front of the courthouse. So no one really cares).
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I’m a southerner. My family members fought in the Civil War. They were traitors to the United States. The southern pride thing is pretty silly.
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Same. Born and raised in Virginia. I once taught at a HS named Stonewall Jackson HS. The entire Southern pride thing is bullshit on the highest level.
 
BiffTannen said:
Did the Confederacy not declare independence from the Union ? Help me out on this. I must be forgetting something.
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The Confederacy declared independence like Michael Scott declared bankruptcy. Turns out you're not independent until you win the war for your independence.
 
Junebug said:
The timing of these statues going up in the late-1800s/early-1900s does not strike me as nefarious, at least not categorically so. It seems reasonable that, as veterans of a war are dying of old age, the people around them think it proper to put up a statue commemorating those who died in the war. See, e.g., the WWII Memorial, which was a little late.

If there is evidence that this or that particular statue was put up for the purpose of continued subjugation of Black people, I think that should go into the mix in deciding whether the statue should be destroyed, moved, altered, or maintained, but the fact many of these statues are 50 years removed from the War does not strike me as dispositive, or even particularly persuasive.
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Still doing gymnastics i see.
 
Junebug said:
The timing of these statues going up in the late-1800s/early-1900s does not strike me as nefarious, at least not categorically so. It seems reasonable that, as veterans of a war are dying of old age, the people around them think it proper to put up a statue commemorating those who died in the war. See, e.g., the WWII Memorial, which was a little late.

If there is evidence that this or that particular statue was put up for the purpose of continued subjugation of Black people, I think that should go into the mix in deciding whether the statue should be destroyed, moved, altered, or maintained, but the fact many of these statues are 50 years removed from the War does not strike me as dispositive, or even particularly persuasive.
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This is willfully, painfully naive.
 
Giving junebug the benefit of good faith, he has stated in this thread that the monuments to Confederate leaders like Lee and Davis should in most cases come down. Those are the ones where it is very likely, if not blatantly obvious, that they were erected to reinforce white supremacy as opposed to memorializing veterans more generally.

That said, there are plenty of monuments to dead veterans in very appropriate places - namely, cemeteries. This website catalogs all the Confederate monuments in NC, and there are a lot of memorials to Confederate dead in cemeteries around the state. https://ncmonuments.ncdcr.gov/ There are several Silent Sam type monuments purporting to honor dead veterans that are in courthouse squares and other public places where they convey the approval of the government. If I was in charge of the balancing act, I would move them all to cemeteries, and the neo-Confederates can go worship the dead in an appropriate place for it.
 
Junebug gonna junebug. The myth of the conservative intellectual is persistent.

 
Deacon923 said:
Giving junebug the benefit of good faith, he has stated in this thread that the monuments to Confederate leaders like Lee and Davis should in most cases come down. Those are the ones where it is very likely, if not blatantly obvious, that they were erected to reinforce white supremacy as opposed to memorializing veterans more generally.

That said, there are plenty of monuments to dead veterans in very appropriate places - namely, cemeteries. This website catalogs all the Confederate monuments in NC, and there are a lot of memorials to Confederate dead in cemeteries around the state. https://ncmonuments.ncdcr.gov/ There are several Silent Sam type monuments purporting to honor dead veterans that are in courthouse squares and other public places where they convey the approval of the government. If I was in charge of the balancing act, I would move them all to cemeteries, and the neo-Confederates can go worship the dead in an appropriate place for it.
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^This. Either put them with Confederate graves in cemeteries (like Hollywood in Richmond, VA), or place them onto relevant national battlefield parks, like Gettysburg or Shiloh. They don't belong on courthouse squares or prominent government property (like a public university campus) anymore.
 
Junebug said:
Name-calling is the last refuge of the weak-minded.
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So I assume you believe calling someone weak-minded isn’t name-calling.
 
Probably, @fivefifths is a writer for The Atlantic. He was responding "racists" to the question in the tweet below. I was not calling you racist. Just find it funny that hero boy of conservative intellectualism, ben shapiro, is out here saying "monkey it up" isn't racist.
 
 
Giving $2.5M to a group that celebrates the Confederacy is just dumb.
 
Jesus, how much does it cost to haul that thing away in a pickup?
 
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