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Down Goes Silent Sam

Coach O said:
This whole situation astounds me.

There cannot be ANYONE who thinks that a statue to this man on a state university campus is a good idea.
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The Republican party disagrees. They pass new laws and spend lots of money to protect these racist relics.

Remember they are siding with a racist southern Democrat over John McCain.
 
Deaconblue said:
Arlington is not in DC. There are many statues in DC honoring many people. Circles and squares in DC usually have a statue of the person they are named for.
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Junebug said:
No
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Why do I need to visit DC, then? I'm a big fan of tearing down Confederate monuments everywhere.

BiffTannen said:
No, it’s in Virginia, stolen from the family of one Robert E. Lee.
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Maybe Virginia should give it back. Reparations and whatnot.
 
Junebug said:
It fucks with the narrative insofar as it shows that a government that honors the confederate dead isn’t necessarily honoring the confederate cause.
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Why did so many State governments in the South decide to honor all the confederate dead in the 60s? Explain that “narrative” for me?

At the very least, all of these monuments and “honoring” is just incredibly dumb. I don’t understand the South’s obsession with the Civil War. It was a long time ago. The Southern States were undeniably wrong. They were traitors and seceded because of slavery. And, they lost. Why are we honoring them or their cause? Why is the Civil War even still a thing? No one goes around championing the War of 1812 or the Spanish-American War.
 
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Junebug said:
Asked and answered.

To elaborate, because they were opposed to black people receiving equal protection of the laws.
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You think I read every post on these threads?

Thanks for elaborating. So, again, please explain to me why we’re honoring the confederate dead? The Confederacy were traitors against this country, their cause was undeniably wrong, and they lost. Are there any other loser traitors who history views as morally wrong that we honor? That any country honors, for that matter? Especially in light of your admittance that this “honoring” was really a State sponsored act of intimidation and propaganda during the Civil Rights movement.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
Holy shit junebug made this about originalism. A JHMD for a new generation
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I chuckled at that too. I’m wondering if he does it for everything in his life. Like when he looks at a recipe when he cooks, or instructions of putting together toys for his kids at Christmas.
 
Just make sure you remember- the answer is never EVER racism. Even when talking about monuments out up to people who fought to preserve slavery.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
Holy shit junebug made this about originalism. A JHMD for a new generation
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Junebug couldn't just stop at authoritarianism, you know, "there's a legal process for a reason, cant just disobey the law when you dont like it" yadda yadda yadda, he had to fucking obfuscate about the intention of the monuments. Jesus. No matter what route junebug takes to make an argument, he ALWAYS finds a way to choose the conservative view point.
 
Some of those Southerners were black and our ancestors were literally tied to the land.
 
Junebug said:
Well, first off, your facts are wrong. Silent Sam wasn’t erected during the Civil Rights movement. He was erected in 1913.

Second, as for those statues that were erected during the Civil Rights movement, I agree that that fact is a strong argument to bring them down, and, absent any countervailing evidence, they should likely come down. My argument pertains to statues that are more contemporaneous with the generations that saw the Civil War.

Third, the question isn’t whether we are going to honor the confederate dead. I don’t think anyone is advocating for more statues of them. The question is whether we are going to dishonor them by bringing the statues down. We have people on this thread accusing footsoldiers of treason, and bringing them down buys into that viewpoint, when the reality is that most of them were pawns in rich men’s games, and undeserving of the aspersion.

Fourth, many Southerners feel strongly about this, in part, because someone in their lineage from not too many generations ago fought and died in the Civil War. There are others aspects of Southern culture that cause people to feel tied to the land and their lineage in a way that simply isn’t present in other areas of the country. I don’t expect non-Southerners to get it, and, candidly, I don’t really care if they do.
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I’m a Southerner and I see the bullshit in this from miles away.
 
Your argument is that only statues erected in the 60s fall in the racist category?
 
Go easy on them, they have feelings about their lineage that no one but southerners can understand.
 
Junebug said:
Except when I said—not more than an hour ago—that putting up the statues in the 1960s was about denying blacks equal protection. But don’t let me fuck with your narrative.
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Not everything is about you, sweetie.
 
Again, if someone were going to erect a more “contemporaneous” plaque or statue honoring the Viet Kong from the Vietnam war on the same timeline as Silent Sam, the statue still wouldn’t be put up for five more years.
 
Junebug said:
Well, first off, your facts are wrong. Silent Sam wasn’t erected during the Civil Rights movement. He was erected in 1913.

Second, as for those statues that were erected during the Civil Rights movement, I agree that that fact is a strong argument to bring them down, and, absent any countervailing evidence, they should likely come down. My argument pertains to statues that are more contemporaneous with the generations that saw the Civil War.

Third, the question isn’t whether we are going to honor the confederate dead. I don’t think anyone is advocating for more statues of them. The question is whether we are going to dishonor them by bringing the statues down. We have people on this thread accusing footsoldiers of treason, and bringing them down buys into that viewpoint, when the reality is that most of them were pawns in rich men’s games, and undeserving of the aspersion.

Fourth, many Southerners feel strongly about this, in part, because someone in their lineage from not too many generations ago fought and died in the Civil War. There are others aspects of Southern culture that cause people to feel tied to the land and their lineage in a way that simply isn’t present in other areas of the country. I don’t expect non-Southerners to get it, and, candidly, I don’t really care if they do.
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I’m aware of the history of Silent Sam. I was talking about the majority of Confederate monuments in general. Not that the motives were any different for Silent Sam, so it’s a moot point even though it was put up 50 years before the Civil Rights movement.

Good. We agree.

I get the “foot soldier” argument in not casting aspersions on all soldiers. Same can be said for Nazis. Doesn’t mean I’m going to start advocating for these foot soldiers to have statues.

I’m glad Southerners have pride in their States. But if those southerners can’t understand how you can have pride in your state while at the same time being able to acknowledge that your ancestor who you didn’t know 170 years ago was wrong, then I don’t really care about their feelings when their precious monuments get torn down.
 
I’m a southerner. My family members fought in the Civil War. They were traitors to the United States. The southern pride thing is pretty silly.
 
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