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Equal Justice Initiative's National Memorial to Victims of Lynching

Wrangor said:
Big difference in a historical marker (IE: a sign) and the construction of a lynching Gallow. No? One informs, the other inflames.
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No one said the counties couldn't put up a sign next to the "gallows" (note: they aren't gallows) to inform people about the historical significance.
 
simosfrostyone said:
Timing can mean a lot. Seems to me that racial tension (hatred) is way up right now. Even if this is a good idea I don't think now is a good time to do it.
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Yup- just like it's never the right time to talk about gun control.
 
We will just agree to disagree, but I don't appreciate you condescending on my historical knowledge or awareness because you happen to think we should inform the public in a different manner. I don't think this initiative is wise, and it isn't because I want to sweep it under the rug. In fact I have actually helped accomplish the exact opposite in real life, not on a message board.
 
RJKarl said:
Many of us understand when you can't defend a response you blame the messenger.
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You got me. Outwitted once again. You do realize that i am arguing that Museums are an excellent resource for educating the public about history. In fact that is probably my main point. That a Holocaust museum is a great way to educate the people of Germany about the horrors of the Holocaust. While I am not German, nor Jew I would postulate that it might not be AS wise to set up a gas chamber in a neighborhood in Germany where there are already high tensions between native Germans and a high Jewish population. Perhaps that might end up in unintended consequences of inflaming the tensions between the two groups, rather than serving to move both groups forward towards honesty and reconciliation. Perhaps those consequences would set racial reconciliation back and end up with both sides digging more into their respective corners rather than being willing and open to learn and progress.

So when you post something as unaware as asking me a question about Museums when I specifically mentioned that a museum would be a great idea in my original post, I don't always feel like you deserve an intelligent response, because it seems clear that you aren't reading what I post anyway. You have already formed formed your opinion, and you are rip roaring to argue against an 'opinion' of mine that simply doesn't exist.
 
Yeah by reading what Wrangor wrote he isn't opposed to education and preserving history but thinks there is a better way to do it then use something he and many others would considered inflammatory such as gallows. His example of gas chamber makes sense to me even before he said it and there are plenty of other examples you could use where the instrument of death over does the point. Let Nice know that a permanent bus will be placed in the middle of that alley coming soon.
 
Wrangor said:
You got me. Outwitted once again. You do realize that i am arguing that Museums are an excellent resource for educating the public about history. In fact that is probably my main point. That a Holocaust museum is a great way to educate the people of Germany about the horrors of the Holocaust. While I am not German, nor Jew I would postulate that it might not be AS wise to set up a gas chamber in a neighborhood in Germany where there are already high tensions between native Germans and a high Jewish population. Perhaps that might end up in unintended consequences of inflaming the tensions between the two groups, rather than serving to move both groups forward towards honesty and reconciliation. Perhaps those consequences would set racial reconciliation back and end up with both sides digging more into their respective corners rather than being willing and open to learn and progress.

So when you post something as unaware as asking me a question about Museums when I specifically mentioned that a museum would be a great idea in my original post, I don't always feel like you deserve an intelligent response, because it seems clear that you aren't reading what I post anyway. You have already formed formed your opinion, and you are rip roaring to argue against an 'opinion' of mine that simply doesn't exist.
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Always remember who you are arguing with on this stuff.
 
Wrangor said:
You got me. Outwitted once again. You do realize that i am arguing that Museums are an excellent resource for educating the public about history. In fact that is probably my main point. That a Holocaust museum is a great way to educate the people of Germany about the horrors of the Holocaust. While I am not German, nor Jew I would postulate that it might not be AS wise to set up a gas chamber in a neighborhood in Germany where there are already high tensions between native Germans and a high Jewish population. Perhaps that might end up in unintended consequences of inflaming the tensions between the two groups, rather than serving to move both groups forward towards honesty and reconciliation. Perhaps those consequences would set racial reconciliation back and end up with both sides digging more into their respective corners rather than being willing and open to learn and progress.

So when you post something as unaware as asking me a question about Museums when I specifically mentioned that a museum would be a great idea in my original post, I don't always feel like you deserve an intelligent response, because it seems clear that you aren't reading what I post anyway. You have already formed formed your opinion, and you are rip roaring to argue against an 'opinion' of mine that simply doesn't exist.
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The reality is you don't treat the victimizers with respect. They don't deserve it.

The way you help to deter some potential events is to show that the public won't stand for it and you will be held responsible in public. Name the people who did it on the monument for all people to see for as long as that monument lasts.
 
RJKarl said:
The reality is you don't treat the victimizers with respect. They don't deserve it.

The way you help to deter some potential events is to show that the public won't stand for it and you will be held responsible in public. Name the people who did it on the monument for all people to see for as long as that monument lasts.
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Good plan.
 
Yep, it's better to keep such events in the dark or in a museum that most people will never enter.
 
What happened to Wrangor's post stating that's what he wanted to do? :)
 
I think the memorial part itself is pretty cool. I think the added part with the markers is typical of today where you end up having to publicly shame any county that doesn't feel like taking its marker and plopping it down in the actual county. Gimme a break. And the idea that this will heal anything is just laughable.
 
Wrangor said:
I'm not sure I said that. First of all the bridge in Selma is an actual bridge. Nobody built it to be a memorial. The JFK assassination isn't a controversial totem either. There was one (or a couple of guys if you believe the theories) that killed a sitting president and pretty much the entire world wept.

Lynchings were the systematic culmination of hatred between one group of people against another. Our efforts as a country should be to solve this problem that clearly still exists today, although not to the same impact of public executions. I'm not sure what you are getting at but I can assure that erecting a lynching monument is not going to help race relations anywhere.

It important to remember the past so that we can use it to move forward. It is also important to use some wisdom and common sense. Your correlations are pretty ridiculous. When considering the actual impact of these monuments in the community it is going to be a net loss and be used to inflame tensions not heal them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I'm genuinely curious about your perspective, so I hope you don't think I'm piling on. Shouldn't the purpose of a memorial be dual - to remember and to educate? If you disagree, and a memorial is only meant to commemorate, then I suppose erecting one in an outside location is plausible (though I'd still disagree).

If you agree that memorials are meant to also educate, then wouldn't the logical conclusion be that the areas in which the original events occurred are the most likely to require said education? In which case, the original location is the only viable option?
 
RJKarl said:
The reality is you don't treat the victimizers with respect. They don't deserve it.

The way you help to deter some potential events is to show that the public won't stand for it and you will be held responsible in public. Name the people who did it on the monument for all people to see for as long as that monument lasts.
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Otherwise known as the ultra-successful Treaty of Versailles plan
 
CantStandYa said:
I'm genuinely curious about your perspective, so I hope you don't think I'm piling on. Shouldn't the purpose of a memorial be dual - to remember and to educate? If you disagree, and a memorial is only meant to commemorate, then I suppose erecting one in an outside location is plausible (though I'd still disagree).

If you agree that memorials are meant to also educate, then wouldn't the logical conclusion be that the areas in which the original events occurred are the most likely to require said education? In which case, the original location is the only viable option?
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It isn't as much the location (we built an Emmett Till Museum in the town of Sumner, MS where the trial was held, we built a community center in the same area, we built monuments at important civil rights locations) as the visual image. So yes, we certainly need the education in Mississippi, but you are never going to create TRUE heart change in an individual by shaming them over sins of the past, because they aren't going to feel guilt for something that someone else did. They are just going to get mad that their town looks bad for no reasons of their own. Instead when dealing with sins of the past it is my opinion that if you want heart change you need to lead them to water, not drown them in it. You are dealing with people who are 120 years removed from the lynchings. Erecting a visual atrocity like that is just going to piss people off and close them off to change. So it isn't that we should remove all education, it is that if you want to have something that is so visually aggressive, it is probably not best to do it in the actual community in which the atrocity took place because there are still deep felt emotions tied that will not go easily into the night once inflamed. If you are going to erect something like what was proposed I think it would better off in a city center. If your aim is to impact local communities I Think there are better methods to remember and reconcile.
 
Lynchings ended 120 years ago?

Shaming IS the way to change people's hearts. Being kept in a museum people don't enter does no good.

You were for " monuments at important civil rights locations) as the visual image". These will simply be other "monuments at important civil rights locations".
 
You cannot be serious. Shaming doesn't change people's hearts--they have to believe it was wrong. Do you really think that anyone who still believes in gas ovens or lynchings is going to have a change of heart because you rub their noses in it?
 
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