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ESPN what are you doing?

I think you guys are confusing the terms transgendered and transsexuals.

Gender is a societal construction, sex is the biological make up.

When someone decides they want to alter their SEX, they are already transGENDERED. They self-identify as the opposite gender of their natural-born sex. I believe the actual legal process requires people that desire to have a sex-change operation to "live" as the sex they are planning to switch to for awhile (I believe at least a year); they take hormonal supplements, go to counseling, etc. before the actual surgery takes place and they become a transsexual. Some people never actually get the surgery, but are still transgendered and living as the opposite sex.

@dagreekdeac, it gets really muddy when you start saying things like maybe people that feel they are born as the wrong gender are just "wrong" in their own mind, and need to accept who they are. Gender is a purely societal/cultural construction, and who are you or I to say that someone's beliefs about themselves are "wrong?" They may be against norms that we are used to, but that doesn't make it wrong. It is also walking an extremely fine line with lesbian/gay/bi, since that isn't the norm either (although obviously its becoming a lot more socially accepted than it has throughout history). But if you're saying that these people that want to change their gender/sex might just be wrong, it is a pretty easy line to cross over and say well maybe gay people might be wrong too because its not "natural."

Just playing devils advocate here, since again we've been talking about this in my gender comm. class quite a bit
 
wolfdeac said:
I think you guys are confusing the terms transgendered and transsexuals.

Gender is a societal construction, sex is the biological make up.

When someone decides they want to alter their SEX, they are already transGENDERED. They self-identify as the opposite gender of their natural-born sex. I believe the actual legal process requires people that desire to have a sex-change operation to "live" as the sex they are planning to switch to for awhile (I believe at least a year); they take hormonal supplements, go to counseling, etc. before the actual surgery takes place and they become a transsexual. Some people never actually get the surgery, but are still transgendered and living as the opposite sex.

@dagreekdeac, it gets really muddy when you start saying things like maybe people that feel they are born as the wrong gender are just "wrong" in their own mind, and need to accept who they are. Gender is a purely societal/cultural construction, and who are you or I to say that someone's beliefs about themselves are "wrong?" They may be against norms that we are used to, but that doesn't make it wrong. It is also walking an extremely fine line with lesbian/gay/bi, since that isn't the norm either (although obviously its becoming a lot more socially accepted than it has throughout history). But if you're saying that these people that want to change their gender/sex might just be wrong, it is a pretty easy line to cross over and say well maybe gay people might be wrong too because its not "natural."

Just playing devils advocate here, since again we've been talking about this in my gender comm. class quite a bit
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No its not. Its a function of the way people of a certain sex predominately act. Due to their sex. Because you are either a boy or a girl.
 
rjequalsmj said:
I think she was the worst athlete in the history of the show
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Say Hey Deac said:
Let's not go crazy now:

08-shauvon-hospital.jpg
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When I decided to go here, I even tried to think of people who were worse, and I honestly believe shauvon is better than Katelynn.
 
TheTwinAndreBen said:
No its not. Its a function of the way people of a certain sex predominately act. Due to their sex. Because you are either a boy or a girl.
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Yes, it absolutely is. Why are some societies matriarchal? You don't think a gender role for women in those society is significantly different than one in patriarchy, the U.S. for instance? Or to further contrast, a society in which women are extremely subjugated.

Sex absolutely influences gender, but gender is a societal construction. Pretty much any sociologist that talks about sex and gender will agree with that.

From the World Health Organization, http://www.who.int/gender/whatisgender/en/

What do we mean by "sex" and "gender"?

Sometimes it is hard to understand exactly what is meant by the term "gender", and how it differs from the closely related term "sex".

"Sex" refers to the biological and physiological characteristics that define men and women.

"Gender" refers to the socially constructed roles, behaviours, activities, and attributes that a given society considers appropriate for men and women.

To put it another way:

"Male" and "female" are sex categories, while "masculine" and "feminine" are gender categories.

Aspects of sex will not vary substantially between different human societies, while aspects of gender may vary greatly.

Some examples of sex characteristics :

* Women menstruate while men do not
* Men have testicles while women do not
* Women have developed breasts that are usually capable of lactating, while men have not
* Men generally have more massive bones than women

Some examples of gender characteristics :

* In the United States (and most other countries), women earn significantly less money than men for similar work
* In Viet Nam, many more men than women smoke, as female smoking has not traditionally been considered appropriate
* In Saudi Arabia men are allowed to drive cars while women are not
* In most of the world, women do more housework than men
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One other thing. You said you are either a boy or a girl. Really? What about sexually ambiguous children? Or hermaphrodites? They do not fit neatly into "boy" or "girl," or what I think you meant to say, male or female. If you want a case where this is an issue in relation to sports, I again reference the "female" runner that was born sexually ambiguous and was subject to a lot of public scrutiny and medical testing.
 
wolfdeac said:
Yes, it absolutely is. Why are some societies matriarchal? You don't think a gender role for women in those society is significantly different than one in patriarchy, the U.S. for instance? Or to further contrast, a society in which women are extremely subjugated.



One other thing. You said you are either a boy or a girl. Really? What about sexually ambiguous children? Or hermaphrodites? They do not fit neatly into "boy" or "girl," or what I think you meant to say, male or female. If you want a case where this is an issue in relation to sports, I again reference the "female" runner that was born sexually ambiguous and was subject to a lot of public scrutiny and medical testing.
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Except that the very first paragraph in Wiki on the subject states that the WHO is a minority point of view only shared with some feminist literature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

You'll notice I used the word predominantly in my post. Of course there are exceptions like people born with 2 peens and 3 vagines. Its really not even worth discussing though since transgendered people only make up like .25% of the population and the peen+vag population would even be a subgroup of those.

Also, there is no such thing as a matriarchal society. It is made up.
 
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