F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

[avalon]

My guess is if 923 or BSD is looking at this thread or avalon (she's a lawyer I think)

I am not, just for the record, and I resent that. (Kidding, lawyer types, you're all great.)

 

[DeaconSlim2.0]

I don't know if you are talking to me, but this is about third or fourth time I've said this. Had Brown gotten shot while tussling with the cop while the cop was in his car, it was on Brown.

Once the cop left and then backed up for a second confrontation, got out of his car and started shooting a person he knew was unarmed, then it's on the cop.

My guess is if 923 or BSD is looking at this thread or avalon (she's a lawyer I think), if you are in fight, the fight breaks up; you start driving away; you back up; get out of your car; pull a gun and empty into the person you were fighting, you can be charged with premeditated murder. You wsould have had plenty of time to create premeditation.

Back to Junebug's post, I cannot fathom how evil that it was. He's stating he believes a person or group of people from Ferguson would seek out and murder the alleged "witness" if her identity was known.

He said "she'd be dead by tomorrow."

Those were his words. No one has attacked Wilson. No one has protested by his home. No one has attacked or sought out the Chief of Police to him harm.

Junebug has gone way over any line of decency.

Did you, or anyone, view the video of the conversation of the witness posted earlier?

The guy lays it out that they fought in the SUV, Brown ran, cop ran after, Brown stopped and came back at the cop...the cop shot...Brown kept coming, cop shot more.

Now, I fully believe that the first method of defense for a cop against an unarmed suspect should be the taser or other non-lethal options...but that account definitely doesn't fit with RJ's "100% absolute fact, no arguing about it" recounting that the cop stopped, got out of his car, and shot an unarmed guy with his hands above his head pleading for his life 6 times.

 

[EatLeadCommie]

It's all fine and dandy until you arrest a Holocaust survivor.

 

[RJKarl]

It's all fine and dandy until you arrest a Holocaust survivor.

It wasn't fine and dandy when they were gassing news people blocks away from any trouble. It wasn't fine and dandy when they arrested a St. Louis City Councilman who was peacefully protesting.

 

[RJKarl]

If that is what happened I agree, but its not clear at all that's what happened.

It is 100% clear that he didn't get shot 5-6 times while struggling with the cop at the cop car. He got shot after the first altercation not during it. This is a huge difference.

 

[DistrictDeacon]

It is 100% clear that he didn't get shot 5-6 times while struggling with the cop at the cop car. He got shot after the first altercation not during it. This is a huge difference.

Your reading comprehension is atrocious. Wilson didn't drive away after getting punched in the face. No cop would ever drive away after being assaulted.

If witness statements are to believed, Wilson pulled up, yelled at the two, drove a short ways away, backed up, and engaged again. That's when the physical altercation took place.

 

[CarlSpackler88]

If you are struggling for a cop's gun or attacking him and you get shot, then the cop is doing his job. Some of you are completely whack. Now the facts are in dispute about what happened here, but there are plenty of circumstances where a police officer shooting an unarmed person being completely justified.

All PD should wear those portable video devices. It would eliminate alot of the uncertainty in these cases.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. Didn't they gas an ESPN reporter? Now shit just got real!

 

[RJKarl]

If you are struggling for a cop's gun or attacking him and you get shot, then the cop is doing his job. Some of you are completely whack. Now the facts are in dispute about what happened here, but there are plenty of circumstances where a police officer shooting an unarmed person being completely justified.

All PD should wear those portable video devices. It would eliminate alot of the uncertainty in these cases.[/QUOTE]


Bingo. Didn't they gas an ESPN reporter? Now shit just got real!

When they get someone from The Daily Show, it will be a sign of an impending apocalypse.

 

[ChrisL68]

Yep, if they tussled for the police officer's gun, then that is a major felony.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

I'm trying to articulate this as best I can, so excuse me if I don't state this clearly - Why weren't the first 1 or 2 shots enough? Even if the guy was "charging" at the cop from 45 feet away, the guy was unarmed, had already been shot, and the cop had multiple ways of detaining the guy, such as pepper spray or a stun gun, and training in hand to hand combat. I'm not paranoid enough to think that the cop woke up that day intending to kill someone, but obviously the option was on the table if he felt threatened. However hesitant the cop was to fire his weapon, he wasn't hesitant enough.

 

[DeaconSlim2.0]

What do you mean weren't enough? He had wounds on his arm, maybe that was the first 1-2 shots. The witness account said he kept coming at the cop. Was he supposed to holster his gun and grab the pepper spray/taser while the big guy ran at him?

Once the gun was out and he had fired a shot, if the guy kept coming, his only option was to shoot until he stopped. Whether he should have had his gun out in the first place is another argument.

 

[jhmd2000]

If you are struggling for a cop's gun or attacking him and you get shot, then the cop is doing his job. Some of you are completely whack. Now the facts are in dispute about what happened here, but there are plenty of circumstances where a police officer shooting an unarmed person being completely justified.

All PD should wear those portable video devices. It would eliminate alot of the uncertainty in these cases.

I was having this very conversation with an LEO friend of mine. He pulled somebody in a neighborhood. As he is engaging subject, subject's intoxicated bro comes charging out at him from behind. Cop whirls and tells #2 that this is none of his business and to stand down. Dude keeps charging. Unarmed, aggressive and noncompliant, what do you do? You throw hands with two guys at once? Draw down on one? Neither of these guys is armed, but there were two of them and there is no way to control your firearm while you fight two people at once.

For lack of a better term, these aren't black and white decisions.

 

[jhmd2000]

If you are struggling for a cop's gun or attacking him and you get shot, then the cop is doing his job. Some of you are completely whack. Now the facts are in dispute about what happened here, but there are plenty of circumstances where a police officer shooting an unarmed person being completely justified.

All PD should wear those portable video devices. It would eliminate alot of the uncertainty in these cases.[/QUOTE]

Bingo. Didn't they gas an ESPN reporter? Now shit just got real!

Or the best P.R. move better, if it was Bayless.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

What do you mean weren't enough? He had wounds on his arm, maybe that was the first 1-2 shots. The witness account said he kept coming at the cop. Was he supposed to holster his gun and grab the pepper spray/taser while the big guy ran at him?

Once the gun was out and he had fired a shot, if the guy kept coming, his only option was to shoot until he stopped.

I completely disagree, and I think mindsets like yours are preventing any progress on this issue. Black people are disproportionately the victims of excessive and deadly police force, and there has to be measures in place to prevent that, even if it means some cop has to actually fight someone instead of shooting them to death. A fucking badge should not give you permission to shoot everyone you feel threatened by.

 

[DistrictDeacon]

I completely disagree, and I think mindsets like yours are preventing any progress on this issue. Black people are disproportionately the victims of excessive and deadly police force, and there has to be measures in place to prevent that, even if it means some cop has to actually fight someone instead of shooting them to death. A fucking badge should not give you permission to shoot everyone you feel threatened by.

Good luck finding a lot of guys for the force when they are told they have to go hand to hand with someone much bigger than them. Why would you ever subject yourself to that situation?

 

[ImTheCaptain]

i know it's not the best analogy but cops in the UK don't carry guns, right?

 

[jhmd2000]

I completely disagree, and I think mindsets like yours are preventing any progress on this issue. Black people are disproportionately the victims of excessive and deadly police force, and there has to be measures in place to prevent that, even if it means some cop has to actually fight someone instead of shooting them to death. A fucking badge should not give you permission to shoot everyone you feel threatened by.

Nor subject to getting shot by them, as happened yesterday in Charlotte. Twice. Police do dangerous work, on behalf of others (almost without exception total strangers), and they don't always have the luxury of the benefit of the hindsight. I get where you are coming from, nobody wants to see innocent people die (in or out of uniform), but to cast the debate as being as one-sided as you are implying is not an accurate portrayal.

Of note:

The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund (NLEOMF) reports that a total of 1,501 law-enforcement officers died in the line of duty during the past ten years, an average of one death every 58 hours, or 150 per year. These include local and state police officers, federal officers, correctional officers, and military law-enforcement officers.

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Good luck finding a lot of guys for the force when they are told they have to go hand to hand with someone much bigger than them. Why would you ever subject yourself to that situation?

Why would you ever fight someone, or tase them, or pepper spray them, or just get the fuck away from them and call it in, instead of shooting them to death? Because you're not supposed to kill people. Jesus Christ, am I taking crazy pills here? The guy was walking down the road with a box of blunts in his hand, not perched on a water tower with a rifle.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

i feel like we're straying into the realm of arguing from a position of ignorance

 

[myDeaconmyhand]

Nor subject to getting shot by them, as happened yesterday in Charlotte. Twice. Police do dangerous, on behalf of others (almost without exception total strangers), and they don't have the luxury of the benefit of your hindsight.

Of note:

The National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund (NLEOMF) reports that a total of 1,501 law-enforcement officers died in the line of duty during the past ten years, an average of one death every 58 hours, or 150 per year. These include local and state police officers, federal officers, correctional officers, and military law-enforcement officers.

I gotta tell you man, there's really no reason for you to respond to me, I don't respect your opinions, and I don't take any of your posts into consideration. While you're wasting time, go ahead and list for me the rest of the obviously dangerous professions that come to mind, but skip law officers, since you already listed them.