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F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

myDeaconmyhand said:
Why would you ever fight someone, or tase them, or pepper spray them, or just get the fuck away from them and call it in, instead of shooting them to death? Because you're not supposed to kill people. Jesus Christ, am I taking crazy pills here? The guy was walking down the road with a box of blunts in his hand, not perched on a water tower with a rifle.
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Well if your position is that police in the US shouldn't be allowed to have guns, we can't have a productive conversation.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I gotta tell you man, there's really no reason for you to respond to me, I don't respect your opinions, and I don't take any of your posts into consideration. While you're wasting time, go ahead and list for me the rest of the obviously dangerous professions that come to mind, but skip law officers, since you already listed them.
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Not to worry. Feel free to disregard anything else you don't agree with or don't wish to believe to be true. Saves time for everyone. Seems like this debate is getting away from you, though.

You know what else is dangerous? Fighting a cop that you know has a gun.
 
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jhmd2000 said:
Not to worry. Feel free to disregard anything else you don't agree with or don't wish to believe to be true. Saves time for everyone. Seems like this debate is getting away from you, though.
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The mayor, ladies and gentlemen!
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I completely disagree, and I think mindsets like yours are preventing any progress on this issue. Black people are disproportionately the victims of excessive and deadly police force, and there has to be measures in place to prevent that, even if it means some cop has to actually fight someone instead of shooting them to death. A fucking badge should not give you permission to shoot everyone you feel threatened by.
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I am 100% with you with respect to lethal force being the very last option. If you'll notice, I didn't say the cop had no other choice than to shoot the man dead. I said AFTER he had pulled his fun, AFTER he had shot the guy 1-2 times and the guy was coming at him, his only option was to shoot until he stops. I'm not sure I understand how you see that situation playing out in that scenario.

I absolutely agree that officers who immediately reach for their sidearm in non-lethal situations should be better trained on non-lethal options, but when it has already escalated to the point it had, I don't see a wide variety of options.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I'm trying to articulate this as best I can, so excuse me if I don't state this clearly - Why weren't the first 1 or 2 shots enough? Even if the guy was "charging" at the cop from 45 feet away, the guy was unarmed, had already been shot, and the cop had multiple ways of detaining the guy, such as pepper spray or a stun gun, and training in hand to hand combat. I'm not paranoid enough to think that the cop woke up that day intending to kill someone, but obviously the option was on the table if he felt threatened. However hesitant the cop was to fire his weapon, he wasn't hesitant enough.
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You're absolutely right. I didn't see Steven Seagal pull a gun once in this scene. Real cops take the easy way out.

 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I think a lot of security and protection measures would change if there was an automatic 6 month jail sentence for any killing in self defense, or for deaths resulting from a stolen or privately sold firearm.
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That would be the most fucked up society on planet earth.
 
DeaconSlim2.0 said:
I am 100% with you with respect to lethal force being the very last option. If you'll notice, I didn't say the cop had no other choice than to shoot the man dead. I said AFTER he had pulled his fun, AFTER he had shot the guy 1-2 times and the guy was coming at him, his only option was to shoot until he stops. I'm not sure I understand how you see that situation playing out in that scenario.

I absolutely agree that officers who immediately reach for their sidearm in non-lethal situations should be better trained on non-lethal options, but when it has already escalated to the point it had, I don't see a wide variety of options.
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I'm sorry if I exaggerated your argument. The problem in this scenario seems to be that the last option was the only option used. People can joke and post Steven Segal clips all they want, but I know cops who have never fired their weapon in years of duty, and they've apprehended violent people who resisted arrest.
 
ChrisL68 said:
All PD should wear those portable video devices. It would eliminate alot of the uncertainty in these cases.
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I agree. From my work in law enforcement, officers want them, but who pays for them? You have to pay for the device and you have to pay for the storage of the video files. Neither of which is cheap. We live in a world of shrinking budgets, not growing.
 
bym051d said:
I agree. From my work in law enforcement, officers want them, but who pays for them? You have to pay for the device and you have to pay for the storage of the video files. Neither of which is cheap. We live in a world of shrinking budgets, not growing.
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Seems to me that the feds could come up with the money. We're talking about a civil rights initiative here, which is within their purview. I think they could maybe divert some of the money currently going for "anti-terrorism" gear and use it on cameras instead.
 
bym051d said:
I agree. From my work in law enforcement, officers want them, but who pays for them? You have to pay for the device and you have to pay for the storage of the video files. Neither of which is cheap. We live in a world of shrinking budgets, not growing.
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Sounds reasonable and I'm sure the ACLU would be happy. Of course, until the day when they're able to integrate facial recognition and cross-reference that with criminal databases and then the ACLU will be bitching again.
 
Junebug said:
That looks to be correct. My mistake. At the time I read the article it wasn't as clear as it is now.
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Junebug doesn't spring wood often. Avalon just ruined this one.
 
Junebug said:
You are far, far outside the mainstream if your view is that a cop must holster his weapon when being charged by a 6'4" man and engage in hand-to-hand with him.

You are also far, far outside the mainstream if your view is that self-defense that results in the death of the attacker should necessarily be a punishable offense.

I have to confess that I find both of these views a little nutty.
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As I posted already, our society has normalized the use of lethal force in police work and private self defense. Not my problem if you and other hot blooded 'murican cowboys are too unimaginative to consider any alternatives. The most conservative German newspapers are portraying us as a bunch of racist gun nuts. Are they wrong?
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
As I posted already, our society has normalized the use of lethal force in police work and private self defense. Not my problem if you and other hot blooded 'murican cowboys are too unimaginative to consider any alternatives. The most conservative German newspapers are portraying us as a bunch of racist gun nuts. Are they wrong?
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myDeaconmyhand said:
As I posted already, our society has normalized the use of lethal force in police work and private self defense. Not my problem if you and other hot blooded 'murican cowboys are too unimaginative to consider any alternatives. The most conservative German newspapers are portraying us as a bunch of racist gun nuts. Are they wrong?
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LOL at the Germans calling anyone out for being racists.
 
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