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F is for Fascism (Ferguson MO)

bobknightfan said:
RChildress107 said:
You told me three years, Childress. Get your story straight, or I might start getting you confused with Townie. And while working three years at the YMCA is nice, that's more of a summer job that one does while he is in college than a permanent job after he graduates with a WFU degree. And you evidently figured that out as well...after however many years you finally decided that you did it...and decided that what you really wanted to do was just go back to school. Sounds like you were just "marking time" for a bit because you couldn't find a job... or maybe you were just trying to "find yourself". Do you honestly consider volunteering three years at the YMCA to be a "career in the real world"? What kind of degree did you get at WF?
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Four years, three of which were after graduation.

As to the bold: No. But i do consider a full time job at the YMCA to be a career in the real world. Do you not?

For someone who complains about others "false sense of superiority" quite often, I find you constant denigration of other's work experience to be rather odd.
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bobknightfan said:
Damn, Childress. I'm not going to keep asking the same question. I'm beginning to think that you don't have an answer.
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I'm beginning to think you don't want an answer. I encourage you to do some research on the subject. The book I suggested is a great place to start.

I'm not your research assistant. But for a short answer:

Examples of systemic racism:

The criminal justice system: I'd point specifically to incarceration rates and times for minor drug offenses, jury selection, and application of the death penalty.

Education: specifically school curriculum, standardized testing,
 
RChildress107 said:
bobknightfan said:
Four years, three of which were after graduation.

As to the bold: No. But i do consider a full time job at the YMCA to be a career in the real world. Do you not?

For someone who complains about others "false sense of superiority" quite often, I find you constant denigration of other's work experience to be rather odd.
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I think what you don't understand is there is a sliding scale of how much real world experience you have and how much you think you know and vehemently defend as if you know better. In your case you scale is really out of whack and its not your fault but just a reality. You would be a lot less ignorant if your dad pulled your trust fund and let you live 10 years before letting you pontificate on these boards. But we don't have that kind of time. In the mean time we will just be patient and understanding as best we can.

Edited as this was a response To RC
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Deacs89 said:
RChildress107 said:
I think what you don't understand is there is a sliding scale of how much real world experience you have and how much you think you know and vehemently defend as if you know better. In your case you scale is really out of whack and its not your fault but just a reality. You would be a lot less ignorant if your dad pulled your trust fund and let you live 10 years before letting you pontificate on these boards. But we don't have that kind of time. In the mean time we will just be patient and understanding as best we can.
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I haven't received financial support from my parents since I was 22 and certainly never had a trust fund. But nice try though.

What real world experience do you have that makes you more knowledgeable about the existence and extent of systemic racism?

I happen to have three years of "real world" experience working in communities effected by systemic discrimination (in addition to volunteer experience during undergrad and law school, which apparently doesn't count. Cause you only learn from it if you are getting paid or something).

If you have any particularly relevant experience I'd love to hear about it. Otherwise, by your logic, we should just find the oldest person we can and ask his/her opinion since they have the most real world experience.
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RChildress107 said:
Deacs89 said:
I haven't received financial support from my parents since I was 22 and certainly never had a trust fund. But nice try though.

What real world experience do you have that makes you more knowledgeable about the existence and extent of systemic racism?

I happen to have three years of "real world" experience working in communities effected by systemic discrimination (in addition to volunteer experience during undergrad and law school, which apparently doesn't count. Cause you only learn from it if you are getting paid or something).

If you have any particularly relevant experience I'd love to hear about it. Otherwise, by your logic, we should just find the oldest person we can and ask his/her opinion since they have the most real world experience.
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Let's hear some specific instances of systematic racism you witnessed.
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Super genius townie should know that the best way to improve how colleges your sat score is to check that you're black on your application. That gets you about 250 points.
 
bobknightfan said:
Certainly, a fulltime job with the YMCA can become a "career in the real world"....but how is that relevant to your situation? You had no intention of making a career of working at the YMCA. You were just filling a void while you had put your life on hold until you could figure out what you wanted to do. You said that you did that "full-time" for three years, but it would be interesting to know just exactly what the definition of "full-time" was in this situation. For example, I wouldn't consider living at home or in an apartment, volunteering for 15-20 hours each week and partying the rest of the time to qualify as a "full-time" job. I'm not saying that was what you did, only that a full-time 40-hr/week job at the YMCA for three years is an unusual destination for a person with a degree from Wake Forest.

And your examples of "systemic racism" are mostly bunk. The unequal application of the death penalty has merit as an example...and is disturbing....but just about everything else you mentioned is mostly eyewash. The oft-used charge that standardized testing is racist is particularly galling to me. The only way that standardized testing is racist is if you believe that it is racist to expect native-born Americans...born to Americans...to learn & speak the English language. The other examples you cited are not valid examples of any "systemic racism". Jury selection? School curriculum? And a greater percentage of young black males are incarcerated because those people are committing crimes at a far greater rate than anyone else in the country.
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You seem like you've got plenty of time on your hands, Bob. You should take a look at this, as there are plenty of examples of racial discrimination and systemic racism from people who are far smarter than all of us:

http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev.soc.33.040406.131740
 
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Did young, civil rights activist BKF just keep his mouth shut because he had less real life experience than the older racists who thought things wrre fine as is? Or does life experience only matter when you are on the positive side of it bkf?
 
ease off everyone, I knew bkf when he was a senior at Wake and he was definitely pro-civil rights at a time when that was not too fashionable among southern whites
 
sailordeac said:
ease off everyone, I knew bkf when he was a senior at Wake and he was definitely pro-civil rights at a time when that was not too fashionable among southern whites
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I am sure he was, and that is the point. His lack of real life experience didnt prevent him from identifying problems in society and helping to change things. In fact it was his LACK of experience in that racist society that allowed him to identify the problems. Now, he takes the opposite stance that the "youngs" should just shut up and listen to the "olds" until they have more experience. Odd stance to take, but hypocrits gonna hypocrit is guess
 
BigTreeDeac said:
I am sure he was, and that is the point. His lack of real life experience didnt prevent him from identifying problems in society and helping to change things. In fact it was his LACK of experience in that racist society that allowed him to identify the problems. Now, he takes the opposite stance that the "youngs" should just shut up and listen to the "olds" until they have more experience. Odd stance to take, but hypocrits gonna hypocrit is guess
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Perhaps the larger point that is being missed here by some is that bkf took a principled stance on an issue where he was distinctly in the minority, and he stuck with it, and he has been proven to be right in the long run.

Yeah, people now-a-days also sometimes take principled stances on less than popular issues. How many of them will be proven to have been right in the long run? Right now we know bkf was right, we'll see about the others.
 
bobknightfan said:
That's a good point. I've been where Childress & Strickland are today. I was frustrated then, too....probably even more than they are today, because the rural south when I grew up was far more antagonistic toward civil rights causes at that time than it is today. (Which is, in itself, an example of the progress that has been made.) As I've said, when I voted for Reginald Hawkins in the 1968 Democratic NC Gubernatorial Primary, which was, incidentally, the very first vote I ever cast as a 22-year old soon to be WF grad (that primary was in May), it was the only vote he got in my West Randleman precinct. I do think that maybe patience comes with age....and possibly a better overall understanding of what is and isn't possible, no matter what you might want.

I remain committed to civil rights causes. Everyone knows where I stand on economic issues regarding such things as taxation, income inequality, etc. As I've said, if the SEIU wants to march for better wages, job conditions & benefits, I will march with them. If someone will propose legislation to spend more money on education & less money on the wasteful Defense Department, I will support it. I remain a liberal at heart and will support liberal causes. However, I have never accepted the idea that I must condone and/or coddle criminals as part of that commitment. Holding the opinion...stated or implied....that poverty justifies crime makes no sense to me. I also believe that we have made major...and I mean major....gains in the area of eliminating racism over the years. Obviously, the work is not done. However, I do not think that constantly playing the "I'm a victim" card today is helpful to solving racial problems. That might have been valid 40 years ago, but not today. At some point there are going to have to be some cultural changes that increase the value placed on education & a stronger family structure (along with more job opportunities, whether private or federal) if there are going to be meaningful improvements in the living conditions of disadvantaged people in this country today. The basic framework is out there as a result of numerous laws that have been passed over the last several decades to improve fairness and remove legalized racial prejudices. That is simply a fact, whether anyone wants to admit it or not. As I said, the situation is far, far different than it was 40 years ago. It's still not perfect....and will probably never be perfect....but it's far past the time to quit playing the "I'm a victim" game and start taking a renewed look at personal lifestyles that are holding people back today more than anything else.

And along that line....and I'm hesitant to even mention this, since I'm not sure that I can adequately express what I want to say....when I "signed on" to the civil rights movement in the mid-1960s, my understanding was that the goal was to reach one fully assimilated, color-blind society. Today, though, I get the feeling that this goal has been changed....that rather than having one assimilated society, some people want to have two separate but equal societies, each with its own language, customs & culture, in some kind of parallel universe. They want the "equal" part alright, but they're not interested in the "assimilated" part. So I've been somewhat disappointed & disillusioned by that, since it's totally contrary to what we thought we were working for back then.
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Despite a once promising three year career at the YMCA, Childress still can't hold BKF's jock.
 
Strickland33 said:
Why?
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33wuo7m.jpg
 
Strickland33 said:
Do (either of) you blame the mayor of New York for a mentally ill man murdering two police officers? If so, then I would love to hear your reasoning with quotes/links where applicable.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/21/ray-kelly-bill-de-blasio_n_6362762.html

Ray Kelly good enough for you?

“Obviously, there's a lot of emotion involved when two police officers are killed," Kelly said. "When the mayor made statements about how they had to train his son, who is biracial, to be careful when he’s dealing with the police, I think that set off this latest firestorm."

"Quite frankly, the mayor ran an anti-police campaign last year when he ran for mayor,” Kelly told ABC.


George E. Pataki ✔ @GovernorPataki
Follow
Sickened by these barbaric acts, which sadly are a predictable outcome of divisive anti-cop rhetoric of #ericholder & #mayordeblasio. #NYPD

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani also criticized de Blasio, accusing him of "allowing protests to get out of control" following a grand jury's decision to not indict police officer Daniel Pantaleo for using a fatal chokehold on Garner.

"If I was in the situation that Mayor de Blasio is in, and I feel sorry that he's in this situation, I would give a speech to the police department and I would explain that maybe I was wrong about a few things," he said during an appearance on "Fox News Sunday."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/n...-the-police-is-savagely-ripped-open.html?_r=0

The president of the city’s largest police union, Patrick Lynch, blamed Mr. de Blasio for the tragedy. The officers’ blood “starts on the steps of City Hall,” he said, “in the office of the mayor.”
 
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jhmd2000 said:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/21/ray-kelly-bill-de-blasio_n_6362762.html

Ray Kelly good enough for you?

“Obviously, there's a lot of emotion involved when two police officers are killed," Kelly said. "When the mayor made statements about how they had to train his son, who is biracial, to be careful when he’s dealing with the police, I think that set off this latest firestorm."

"Quite frankly, the mayor ran an anti-police campaign last year when he ran for mayor,” Kelly told ABC.


George E. Pataki ✔ @GovernorPataki
Follow
Sickened by these barbaric acts, which sadly are a predictable outcome of divisive anti-cop rhetoric of #ericholder & #mayordeblasio. #NYPD

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani also criticized de Blasio, accusing him of "allowing protests to get out of control" following a grand jury's decision to not indict police officer Daniel Pantaleo for using a fatal chokehold on Garner.

"If I was in the situation that Mayor de Blasio is in, and I feel sorry that he's in this situation, I would give a speech to the police department and I would explain that maybe I was wrong about a few things," he said during an appearance on "Fox News Sunday."
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No, but I see a lot of people whose opinions no longer matter making divisive comments that are not grounded in reality.

For instance:

1) What about de Blasio's election campaign was anti-police? Kelly's logic does not work in substantiating the point that he is making about an anti-police campaign. The mayor having "the talk with his son" = anti-police? (You'll want to look at his record thus far, his election statements, and his record in local government prior to his election.)

2) What anti-cop rhetoric has come from Holder and de Blasio?

3) What should de Blasio tell the PBA that he was wrong about?

I'll wait.
 
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