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First Day w/ the ACA... ClusterFuck

ONW said:
Does paying the penalty mean you have coverage at any level? If you just pay the penalty and then break a leg during that period, what happens?
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Without checking, I don't think you gain any coverage by paying the penalty. You can wait until you get sick to enroll, but I think enrollment isn't available continuously forever...pretty sure there will be annual enrollment periods and you'll have to wail for one to sign up. Over time, the idea is that the vast majority of us will be enrolled in some form of health insurance.
 
Wrangor said:
That is bc at a fundamental level the Republican Party disagrees with the ACA. Would be like asking democrats to help devise a plan to end abortion.

This board has jumped the shark. Disagreeing with ACA means I don't want people to be cared for. I'm out for a while. Just tired of the same stupid patronizing comments.

Not directed at you ONW. Mainly the liberal
Idiot crew of bake RJ and apparently PH lately. Peace. Go Deacs.
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Disagreeing with ACA without providing a viable alternative means not caring about people. What have Republicans come up with to help the uninsured get insurance? They don't care. Name a Republican who has said "What can we do to solve the health care problem?" All they can do is bitch about Obamacare.
 
So, if you deny coverage, pay the penalty, get injured or sick, and go to the hospital who pays for your procedure and medicine?

Hmmmmm.......I wonder. It's a mystery!!! You just get better magically. It's awesome!!!
 
If you don't buy during the AEP, you cant enroll until next year's AEP unless you have an SEP reason (SEP=Special Enrollment period). SEPs reasons are things like job loss, marriage, etc. Of course, the feds said they wont enforce SEP reasons, they will rely on the private carriers. This is a hard thing to track. The actuaries are scared to death of this base don what happened in Mass. I think I remember hearing that BCBSMA lost somethign like $80 million on their U65 business in year 1. Scary stuff.

I do think its comical that people thing all uninsured care goes unpaid. Try going to the ER and see what happens. I actually had a $13 dollar unpaid bill from UNC and had it pulled from my tax refund without even a warning shot. Sure, some never pay but a LOT do.
 
PhDeac said:
Disagreeing with ACA without providing a viable alternative means not caring about people. What have Republicans come up with to help the uninsured get insurance? They don't care. Name a Republican who has said "What can we do to solve the health care problem?" All they can do is bitch about Obamacare.
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I think this is a pretty unfair generalization. For one, I think a plausible argument can be made that the ACA does a lot of long term fiscal harm. I wonder what the CBO priced out the exchange development costs to be? There are also some very valid counter proposals out there...Granted, there are also some red herrings and also a lot of rhetoric. But to dismiss an entire slate of proposals is very uninformed.
 
CHDeac said:
I think this is a pretty unfair generalization. For one, I think a plausible argument can be made that the ACA does a lot of long term fiscal harm. I wonder what the CBO priced out the exchange development costs to be? There are also some very valid counter proposals out there...Granted, there are also some red herrings and also a lot of rhetoric. But to dismiss an entire slate of proposals is very uninformed.
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CBO has done the numbers multiple times. They have all the information that exists from all the players and significantly disagree with you.
 
CHDeac said:
I think this is a pretty unfair generalization. For one, I think a plausible argument can be made that the ACA does a lot of long term fiscal harm. I wonder what the CBO priced out the exchange development costs to be? There are also some very valid counter proposals out there...Granted, there are also some red herrings and also a lot of rhetoric. But to dismiss an entire slate of proposals is very uninformed.
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What proposals?
 
PhDeac said:
What proposals?
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Really? Google it Professor. Countless proposals from the intellectual right. Hell, several governors have implemented versions of this in the Medicaid space.
 
RJKarl said:
CBO has done the numbers multiple times. They have all the information that exists from all the players and significantly disagree with you.
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Ha! Lets see how this plays out over the medium/long haul. LBJ himself predicted our issues with Medicare and fought to frame the legislative debate over a very short time horizon. If you listen to his tapes its clear that he knows the long run economics didn't work. But hey, we are all dead in the long run....
 
CHDeac said:
Really? Google it Professor. Countless proposals from the intellectual right. Hell, several governors have implemented versions of this in the Medicaid space.
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Speaks volumes. You've written thousands upon thousands of words about health care on these boards over the last few months, good info I might add. You've answered plenty of questions. But when asked to give an example of a right-wing health care proposal that isn't "defund Obamacare" you respond with "Really? Google it Professsor."

I did and I get some discussion of the individual mandate and why conservatives don't like it anymore. I'm not an insider in health care like you are, so all I know is what I see and hear on the news and stumble upon on the internet. I don't remember seeing a serious proposal for health care reform from the right aside from tort reform or interstate competition. Last week, it came out that Paul Ryan is going to present the House GOP health care plan in January. That tells me that there wasn't just something they could dust off to go toe to toe with Obamacare for hearts and minds nor have they been working on a plan since Obama's first presidential win.
 
CHDeac said:
Really? Google it Professor. Countless proposals from the intellectual right. Hell, several governors have implemented versions of this in the Medicaid space.
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Does not compute. Are these the young earth intellectuals or the evolution intellectuals? :thumbsup:

Real answer, wasn't the ACA the proposal from the intellectual right?
 
Yeah, googling ACA Obamacare probably puts you in the tea party ad serve lists. My broader point was saying people who oppose Obamacre don't care about people is just silly and non productive.

Most of the serious ideas out there focus on providing a more catastrophic based plan with financial incentives to cover lower income people who would struggle with the large OOP limits. This, coupled with a separate high risk pool for pre-ex and changes to Medicare reimbursement is a pretty common theme and a lot less expensive.

Mitch Daniels did this experiment for Medicaid and the Indiana State Heath plan. I know the early results were good. Need to look up the more recent stats.
 
CHDeac said:
Mitch Daniels did this experiment for Medicaid and the Indiana State Heath plan. I know the early results were good. Need to look up the more recent stats.
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I didn't think you could translate state results to federal, at least isn't that what was said by Republicans in the 2012 Election about Massachusetts?
 
What the tax concept does is kick millions of people out of the system. also it doesn't the tens of millions who aren't covered, not does it have any impact on companies that refuse to provide health insurance for their employees. It was a false option five years ago and it's a false option now.
 
^It basically just hands taxpayer money to the insurance companies. There aren't transparent market controls that would keep premiums down.
 
also the concept of not negotiating with Republicans or not involving them in the bill is a total and unmitigated lie. ACA is 90% or so a GOP bill that was presented in mid-late 90s by Bob Dole and the American Institute. Add to this that over 100 GOP amendments are included in the final bill that passed.

This line of attack is a bald-faced lie that has been used to brainwash idiots across the country that either know nothing about the origin the bill, the actual bill or simply hate anything Obama.
 
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