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Former WF Hoops Asst Coach Jamil Jones gets probation for 3rd degree assault (update)

Hitman Hart said:
nobody tell Jaybone that Zimmerman self-identifies as hispanic
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I don't think Jaybone believes that most of the people involved are consciously thinking, "let's put minorities in jail". It's about perception. A white-looking dude named George f'ing Zimmerman seems less threatening, and more relatable, to a lot of our society (especially those with the power to influence other people's lives). That difference in the assessments of the individuals results in differences in how they are treated.
I feel confident there are plenty of people remaining that will look at (a) Jamil and determine a different level of threat than (a) George.
The relatability and threat assessment goes for the victim, as well. A crazy black dude going around banging on cars and being belligerent is a threat that needs to be neutralized. A crazy white dude is being drunk and stupid, like we all have been, and should just be ignored/avoided until he sobers up.
 
Hitman Hart said:
nobody tell Jaybone that Zimmerman self-identifies as hispanic
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So you are telling me that if Trayvon Martin was a white kid named Tad Martin walking to his dad's house and Zimmerman had shot him, you feel extremely confident that he still would have been acquitted because ... that's how justice works in this country. It is always colorblind?

Remember Tad was a big kid VERY intimidating to little Zimmerman. Tad was dressed very [su]burban, again, very frightening to the Zimster. He had to shoot him to keep Tad from yanking the gun away and shooting him instead ... because that is how fearful Tad made Zimmy feel.
 
Tobacco Road said:
I don't think Jaybone believes that most of the people involved are consciously thinking, "let's put minorities in jail". It's about perception. A white-looking dude named George f'ing Zimmerman seems less threatening, and more relatable, to a lot of our society (especially those with the power to influence other people's lives). That difference in the assessments of the individuals results in differences in how they are treated.
I feel confident there are plenty of people remaining that will look at (a) Jamil and determine a different level of threat than (a) George.
The relatability and threat assessment goes for the victim, as well. A crazy black dude going around banging on cars and being belligerent is a threat that needs to be neutralized. A crazy white dude is being drunk and stupid, like we all have been, and should just be ignored/avoided until he sobers up.
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this, thanks.
 
jaybone said:
The ironic thing to me is that the only wake alumni group who'd agree w me by a large majority are the very scholly athletes we all come on here to passionately talk about and discuss and follow. Because they have to know this have had to understand this to get to where they are. Justice is not color blind, not yet.
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Justice is not color blind. History, precedent, and statistics make that obvious. Your argument would be better presented by placing the focus on the fact that Zimmerman walked rather than Jones will likely serve time. Both Zimmerman and Jones took action that resulted in the death of another person. Both Zimmerman and Jones could have taken a course of action that would not have resulted in the death or injury of another person. Both Zimmerman and Jones deserve consequences for their actions. The fact that Zimmerman walked is worthy of complaint and outrage, not that Jones may serve time.
 
wfu22fan said:
I’ve tried civil jury cases for 34 years and have never heard that one. But I’m always eager to learn, so please give me the leading NC case on this issue.
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Well I’m not sure what NC law has to do with this case but it appears from a brief search that NY law is in line with what I said (which is also the law in the jurisdiction where I practice). And, as someone who’s tried both criminal and civil cases I’d like to think I have an idea of what I’m talking about.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorkbusinesslawyerblog.com/amp/criminal-convictions-equitable-estoppel-and-intentional-acts-exclusions-in-new-york-insurance-law/
 
jaybone said:
Once again, Jones hit a super hammered man who was banging on his car and causing havoc all about town - with his fiest - once- and is going to jail.

George Zimmerman accosted an unarmed teenager with a gun who was walking down the sidewalk and then shot him and he walks. Mind you, Trayvon Martin had not gotten into multiple fights or banged on Zimmerman's car window to warrant the attack. He was walking to his dad's house. Aquitted. Zimmerman cashed out on the acquittal via a bogus Go Fund Me account and selling his memorabilia.

Justice in America
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Other than both sharing a claim of self defense, these cases have essentially nothing in common.
 
DeacinBama said:
This detachment thing is bullshit. I spent 5.5+ years reading trauma scans at two different level 1 trauma centers - everything from chainsaw to the face to unrestrained passenger ejected 300 feet across the interstate. Never once did I see a brainstem "detached" from the remainder of the brain. The idea that a human could cause that from a single punch or even the subsequent collision with the ground is pure fantasy. At best, the ADA is being loose with language. At worst, he/she is lying.
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No way a judge allows a prosecutor to say that unless the ME testified to it.
 
Not a trauma surgeon, just a PT who treats patients with TBI and SCI. Likely he was being loose with language and meaning that the connection was severed and not that it was physically separated.
 
Does anyone believe that the guy broke out Jones' back window? I don't think there is any way the guy broke his window with his hand. Jones probably drove back to NC, broke it and took a picture of it to give himself reason for the attack... I say that with no actual knowledge, of course...

The video certainly makes it look like Jones has an anger problem - why else would he jump out of his car and sprint like that with no intention to do anything other than punch the guy? Who does that?
 
SDDeac said:
Look, he killed a man, and he’s only getting a year of jail time. He’s a lucky black man. He probably deserves more time imo. He punched a guy, and then fled the scene. He saw the dude’s head hit the side of the curb, and ran away. Pretty bad look for a guy that coaches 18-22 year olds.
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He’s not getting a year of jail time. Most likely not any.
 
jaybone said:
Definitely a bad look and I agree. But just mostly. Close your eyes and reverse the races of the two men. The black guy is the one in multiple fights. The black guy bangs on the white guy's window. The white gets out to inspect damage to his car. Anybody gonna deny his right to punch the black guy justified for "fear for his life?" Now add in hysterical black mother. That mother would have been dismissed by all.

I'm not saying Jones doesn't deserve some jail time. But I am saying if their races are reversed, he doesn't do any time at all. Its probation and a slap on the wrist.

I'm basing this on precedent and statistics.
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You mean like this (except here the victim was stabbed in the back)?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/news/michael-white-sentenced-sean-schellinger-rittenhouse-square-stabbing-20200109.html%3foutputType=amp
 
scooter84 said:
Does anyone believe that the guy broke out Jones' back window? I don't think there is any way the guy broke his window with his hand. Jones probably drove back to NC, broke it and took a picture of it to give himself reason for the attack... I say that with no actual knowledge, of course...

The video certainly makes it look like Jones has an anger problem - why else would he jump out of his car and sprint like that with no intention to do anything other than punch the guy? Who does that?
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Does anyone believe that Jones comprehended the possibility that Szabo might die when he threw the punch?
 
scooter84 said:
Does anyone believe that the guy broke out Jones' back window? I don't think there is any way the guy broke his window with his hand. Jones probably drove back to NC, broke it and took a picture of it to give himself reason for the attack... I say that with no actual knowledge, of course...

The video certainly makes it look like Jones has an anger problem - why else would he jump out of his car and sprint like that with no intention to do anything other than punch the guy? Who does that?
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I don't. One article I read said they couldn't find the car or the ex-fiance who was there (she owned the car). How hard can it be to find the ex-fiance?
 
scooter84 said:
Does anyone believe that the guy broke out Jones' back window? I don't think there is any way the guy broke his window with his hand. Jones probably drove back to NC, broke it and took a picture of it to give himself reason for the attack... I say that with no actual knowledge, of course...

The video certainly makes it look like Jones has an anger problem - why else would he jump out of his car and sprint like that with no intention to do anything other than punch the guy? Who does that?
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One punch killed a man, but it's just unbelievable that someone can break a window with his hand?
 
Of course Jones didn’t think Szabo would die.

I suspect falling and hitting his head (as a result of being punched and drunk, probably) was at least as damaging as the punch.
 
PhDeac said:
One punch killed a man, but it's just unbelievable that someone can break a window with his hand?
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In a word, yes. Much easier to kill someone with one punch - especially when (i) the punchee is drunk, (ii) the puncher is a large, strong man, and (iii) the punchee falls down (probably without breaking his fall because he was drunk and probably unconscious as he fell) and hits his head on the asphalt - than it is to break a car window with your hand. And especially when, apparently, his hands showed no sign of damage. Have you ever seen the video of the guy doing some demo that required him to break a car window with a hammer and he hits it as hard as he can like three times and the hammer just bounces off?
 
wfumike02 said:
Well I’m not sure what NC law has to do with this case but it appears from a brief search that NY law is in line with what I said (which is also the law in the jurisdiction where I practice). And, as someone who’s tried both criminal and civil cases I’d like to think I have an idea of what I’m talking about.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorkbusinesslawyerblog.com/amp/criminal-convictions-equitable-estoppel-and-intentional-acts-exclusions-in-new-york-insurance-law/
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That NY case holds that collateral estoppel didn’t apply in a declaratory action filed by an insurance company to determine a duty to defend. The issues are different in criminal and civil cases. If the mother files a wrongful death case against Jones, she will have to prove that Jones was not entitled to defend himself. His insurance company will likely deny coverage but have to defend him under a reservation of rights. It’s likely that she will win the wrongful death case and there will be no coverage by his homeowners policy for his intentional act of assaulting the victim. However, there will be no collateral estoppel. The finding of guilty by the NY jury will have no bearing on the civil suit or the insurance company’s duty to defend and coverage.
 
It is also likely that the mother will sue Wake Forest because Jones is judgement proof, there will be no insurance coverage from his homeowner’s policy and he was in NY on a recruiting trip (I’m assuming he was because we were recruiting Massoud). WFU will deny responsibility because Jones was out late at night, which was unrelated to his recruiting duties.
 
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