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FUCK YOU LEBRON

lebron has more talent and physical gifts than anybody else in the league. nobody is capable of doing everything that he is capable of doing.
 
Milhouse said:
lebron has more talent and physical gifts than anybody else in the league. nobody is capable of doing everything that he is capable of doing.
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Yep. No other 6'8" player can be routinely guarded by 1s because he can't be bothered to learn how to post up. Lebron: unique.
 
Let's just agree to disagree on this.

You might check out Wilt's stats and other athletic accomplishments before putting LeBron in his category.

(I think Wilt's and LeBron's stats and accomplishments have been compared on these boards before, and IIRC LeBron aint even close, he aint even close for the same stage in their careers, never mind lifetime records and accomplishments. On the other hand, I do think LeBron is a better free-throw shooter than Wilt was.)
 
"can't be bothered to learn how to post up" has nothing to do with physical talent einstein
 
PhillyDeac said:
There are a lot of plays throughout the series where he came up weak, but that entire team came up short in the last 2 minutes of that game. I would put Lebron near the bottom of people I blame for that loss.... Coaching and DWADE would be near the top. Coaching did not set up plays to sustain a lead, and DWADE made some HORRIBLE choices that not only didn't put the ball in the hoop, but also kept time on the clock. If they win that game, they are up 2-0, likely win the series and people would probably be looking at Bron a little different right now... like an above poster said.... Lebron plays better with a lead.

that's all, not excusing him at all, just saying that's a huge shift which could have dramatically changed the outcome overall...
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Wait so you're willing to give the guy that had 20 pts and 5 TOs a pass and throw the guy with 36 pts and 1 TO under the bus? That seems reasonable.

A lot of the heat's problems were exposed in the finals, but d-wade was not one of them.
 
Milhouse said:
so you are agreeing with me?
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Yes and no. I'm being a bitch/stickler about including mental talent in any assessment of overall "talent." I think LeBron, up until this season and maybe the last one in Cleveland, has gotten by with poor work ethic (not that he doesn't work hard, but he doesn't work at all at things he doesn't want to do) because of overwhelming physical gifts. But, from my background in sports, if a guy's got physical gifts he doesn't want to use, I'm not sure he really counts as being gifted. My HS track team's captain had that problem, as did a number of teammates at Wake.
 
ok, that's fair. i meant talent in the physical sense.
 
Milhouse said:
ok, that's fair. i meant talent in the physical sense.
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That's true then. Now that I have some experience on the other side of the clipboard, it seems really clear to me that some people have "it" upstairs and others don't. And it's not necessarily something that develops absent of shocks to a guy's system of looking at either sports or the world.
 
94Deac said:
Is there something about Lebron that makes him any better than any of the great names who've never won one? I must've missed the history on his birthright that makes him any more talented or able to win one than his predecessors?

I'm stunned that people seem to think just like Lebron does: it'll all be handed to him.

Elgin Baylor: Rookie of the Year, 11-time NBA All-Star, 10-time All-NBA and the NBA's third all-time leading scorer. 8 Finals appearances. No titles.

Gervin: All Star 12 out of 14 seasons. Led league in scoring three consecutive years. Played with both Dr. J and Michael Jordan. No titles.

Ewing: Mr. Knicks. 11 time All Star. One Finals, no titles (thanks to a kid named Duncan).

Malone: Two MVPs. 14 time All Star. Two Finals, no titles.

That's some pretty impressive company to put Lebron ahead of. No one is saying Lebron winning a title is impossible. No one, certainly not I, is saying he can't or won't win it. But it's ridiculous to say it's a matter of "when," not "if," given the names who also never won a title.

Again, he's 2/10 in Finals games and now 0-2 overall. In all the time between being swept by San Antonio and now against Dallas, he could only manage two more wins with the obviously improved talent supporting him? Why is it so obvious that it's "when, not if?"
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Ewing played in Two Finals right? The OJ Final against the Rockets in '94.
No idea Karl Malone won 2 MVPs.

Would definitely put LeBron ahead of Gervin and Ewing. Behind Malone and Elgin (can't believe he has 8 Finals appearances and 0 rings). Damn Celtics killed him.
 
oh, i agree. jason terry would never have talked shit in the media about kobe, then gone out and lit him up like he did lebron.

to me, that was more surprising than anything else.
 
qcdeac said:
Would definitely put LeBron ahead of Gervin and Ewing.
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Not necessarily arguing but it begs the question: why? Strictly looking at stats and accomplishments. Granted, we're talking about players complete careers versus one still ongoing, but is this because of thy mystique/hype of Lebron and the currency of his career?
 
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sailordeac said:
Wilt had overwhelming dominating talent. LeBron has talent. There is a difference.
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The difference was Wilt didn't have that much talent around him. the Celtics had far more talent and there was no free agency.
 
94Deac said:
Not necessarily arguing but it begs the question: why? Strictly looking at stats and accomplishments. Granted, we're talking about players complete careers versus one still ongoing, but is this because of thy mystique/hype of Lebron and the currency of his career?
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Gervin: Ice Man was one of the first NBA players I remember; loved his game and the finger roll. The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons had some damning things to say about him: never played D, only cared about his own stats, cared more about money than team success, etc. Basically he was just a scorer on some mediocre teams.

Ewing: never that impressed by his offensive game, and it seemed he also shrunk in big situations. Never was the best in his position in my opinion. He was NBA 1st team 1 time. LeBron has already been NBA 1st team 5 times. I put very little weight into All-Star nods, by the way. Those are determined by fans and a couple of coaches midway through the regular season.

With LeBron, he has had a couple of huge playoff games, namely the Detroit game. Also, he led a mediocre Cleveland team to the best record in the NBA 2 years in a row. He is only 26 and has had as much postseason success as Ewing if NBA Finals appearances is the measure.

Think he will win at least one title because he will be around other good players for the next 8-10 years, but it is in no way a given. Your question about what makes him better than the others is a very good one though.
 
Fair enough. It's something that always hangs over those "who's the greatest" lists. The younger you are, the less likely you are to name names from the past. That's just common sense. Ask current WF students to name the greatest WF players all-time. Without research, not many are going to have the names like Chappell or Hemric or Davis in there.
 
RJKarl said:
The difference was Wilt didn't have that much talent around him. the Celtics had far more talent and there was no free agency.
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Yeah Wilt didn't have that much talent around, just 2 hall of famers for pretty every year of his career (Gola+Arizin, Greer+Cunningham, Baylor+West+Goodrich). If 2 HOFers isn't enough support to win, well then that's a knock against your candidacy for "the best".

Wilt and Russ met 4 times in game 7s. That means the teams were pretty well balanced and competitive. The tally? Russ 4 Wilt 0. Game 7s are when winners are made. Scoreboard.
 
DeacHead said:
Yeah Wilt didn't have that much talent around, just 2 hall of famers for pretty every year of his career (Gola+Arizin, Greer+Cunningham, Baylor+West+Goodrich). If 2 HOFers isn't enough support to win, well then that's a knock against your candidacy for "the best".

Wilt and Russ met 4 times in game 7s. That means the teams were pretty well balanced and competitive. The tally? Russ 4 Wilt 0. Game 7s are when winners are made. Scoreboard.
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The teams WEREN't that balanced. Russ had MORE HOFers on his teams EVERY time.

But don't let FACTS get in your way.
 
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